I think the easiest way to handle fighters in-game is just to make a new module/research tree that allows you to research fighters/small craft. Each fighter/small craft would have a deck requirement reflecting the amount of space required to maintain, launch and retrieve the craft. To make this line of modules unique, you should be able to equip as many as you like. Of course, each one would have a somewhat high deck requirement, but that would allow players to create a fighter carrier, if they so desired.

I see two types of ships that could be built: fighters and small craft

Fighters would be able to attack and defend, and would be the first line if defense for your ship (all fighter combat taking place before ship to ship combat starts). Fighters would sustain damage during fights, and may even become disabled (providing no bonus until replaced or repaired, just like broken modules).

Small craft would be like miniature ships, especially when you reach higher levels, and could perform the same functions that your main ship performs, maybe even having their own decks, crew, etc. The main advantage of small craft is that you can guard more than one planet at a time. Small craft would have significantly higher deck requirements than fighters, for obvious reasons, and may only be affordable for higher level players.

A sample research tree:
Level 1, 1500 research points
Small Craft Engineering
Just like advanced armor, this provides you with access to the next tier

Level 2, 2500 research points
1st research, Dart interceptor, 10 spaces, Attack 2, Defense 6, Hull 5
2nd research, Mallet bomber/assault fighter, 11 spaces, Attack 6, Defense 2, Hull 10
3rd research, Razor air superiority fighter, 12 spaces, Attack 6, Defense 6, Hull 10

Level 3, 5000 research points
Arrowhead Explorer Shuttle, 20 spaces, 5 Decks, 2 Helmsman, 2 Engineers, 2 Tactical Officers

You get the idea. I think it would be cool if you were level 200 to be able to send a decent ship (maybe with 50-100 decks, and a decent crew) to defend one of your better planets. I also think it would be VERY cool if you could do the fighter carrier idea.

BTW I came up with the stats for the fighters by taking the values of base level equipment and adding 1 (for the launch equipment ).

Comments?

I think a hangar bay module should just be ridiculously big with an even more ridiculous maintenance cost and provide some arbitrary balance of attack defense depending on which squadron you pick. like size 400 with 1000 attack and defense or something. Something simple for a start. Since different fighter/shuttle options with different abilities would be nice, it would make more sense to just call them "squadrons" and the hangar bay would just come along with them and they would still have the insane space and maintenance requirements. They could have any kind of properties really.

bombers = invasion strength heavy
drones = defense heavy
fighters = attack heavy
plenty of other creative things probably

I don't like the idea of micromanaging different sized ships in different places with different gear. It would essentially make your ship totally gimp if they were actually busy defending other planets instead of being magically available to defend your carrier ship or attack a target. and they themselves would be totally gimp in terms of planet defense unless I had to use 20 unstable warp gates. It doesn't really sound like the limited-range type of thing you would launch off a ship. It would probably be a supreme pain in the ass to program too.

The shuttles probably WOULD be a pain, and i only included the idea because I thought others would like it. I don't think the fighters would be any more difficulty to manage than your other modules, since they wouldn't be deployable to a planet. Programming them as the first line of defense shouldn't be too hard either.

I definitely love the idea of a bomber being an option instead of a shuttle, with planetary invasion. Fantastic idea!

Shuttles aren't that bad of an idea if they don't use deckspace. It would probably easier to implement if it were some kind of seperate game aspect entirely. It would be hard to do in a way that everyone would like. It could be artifact based where you get shuttles and deck upgrades for them. Some people could probably end up with more than they really wanted though. The upkeep on modules could make them more of a hindrance if they don't get used. If they take energy to use then they would only really be good for planet defense and would only be used in an annoying way. Probably not worth the effort to develop. The game is sort of missing the concept of "fighters" though.

Shuttles should act like a player ship (but have an upkeep based on there deck size). Different models could have bonuses either based of the pilots race or just the ship type (ship model/ship type would likely be easier).

There would also then be deck bots for them (or deck bots will work on them) to increase there size and in tern power.

Really I could see the base such craft have 10 deck spaces no bonuses. Yes its small but it is the base shuttle and enough deck bots can still make it strong. Though I would think there might also need to be a deck limit for shuttles based off rank. But they will cost plenty to keep up given the cost per deck space and any modules you place on them.

This idea if added could also add to your sensors total only when scanning for planets (get all your crafts aimed and pointed the same way and scan, though such scanning would likely eat 5 extra command per added shuttle).


The hangers idea is prety simple can could be added easily compared to this.

I'm definitely for the addition of a fighter hangar module and tech tree of some kind. In fact, I proposed some of these ideas myself in Redlaw's Some Moduel Ideas thread.

It would be nice if Dan could post here, even if it's to say the idea won't be in. (Hopefully he won't say that though)

I don't know if they would really add a whole extra tech tree. Everyone would be playing catch up and the CC warriors wouldn't have their classical disadvantage of being behind on research. they could just have completion of several other research areas be a prerequisite for a particular module. Pretty much all the existing tech would be required to make a fighter.

I think that having a separate Hangar Deck module adds an unnecessary extra step in the addition of fighters and other small craft. Installing each fighter individually is definitely the easiest way to add small craft to the game, and is comparable to the way crew and weapons are currently added.

Of course, if more people want hangar decks, and Dan agrees, who am I to argue?

Hmm...maybe the tech tree could be called 'Hangar Deck,' representing the necessary upgrades to purchase and store higher tech fighters?

Ah, a new post made while I was typing...
I don't think that having to research a tree from the ground up would take high level players too long to complete. The low levels of research would likely only take a couple of hours to catch up on, and the higher levels maybe a day or two (except for the REALLY high levels).

So tell me what does it bring extra ?

Extra fire power ? Weapons does that ...

I think it could provide defense too and be more efficient overall than other attack/defense modules but have prohibitively high maintenance costs. So high that you would have to be a builder to feasibly maintain one at your current research level. That would cover the cost of "lost fighters" and maintenance in general. It might require research in multiple research trees. Defense drones might require more sheilds and defense research. Fighters might require more weapons and stealth. Bombers and troop carriers could provide attack and invasion attack in some ratio.

Basically the game needs to address the concept of "fighters". It seems like a feasible way of doing it and it could probably be expanded on in the future and the database programming should only be as difficult as existing modules.

It adds 'flavor,' which makes a game more fun!

Not only does each fighter provide firepower, it provides defense/shielding (you have to get by the fighters first) and additional flexibility for future items and ideas. Here are a few:
Spookyjank's bomber idea, a unit that adds to invasion attack, or destroys planetary defenses
A raiding shuttle, which increases your raid success chances
Interceptor fighters, which excel at killing fighters
Scouts, which give you more options on your battle tab
Mechs, which aren't fighters, but it would be cool if the prototype you had could be researched and reproduced

Hmm Mechs could be a nice idea in addition to the fighters. They could have effects like attempting to remove traps placed on you by enemies, or even minor hull repairs/slow repairs over time. Invasion bonuses would be an obvcious one as well since there's already a mech for that.

Adding a feature that just doesn't bring anything new doesn't bring flavor, it brings complexity and lack of understanding/visibility.


It could be a planet structure: - Fighter base (atk/def artifact limited)
It could be a ship artifact / a ship module.

I don't see the point in creating a new module category for fighters that would do what already exists in weapons and / or defense.

Another idea could be an artifact that acts as a ship guarding a planet ...

I don't think it adds complexity OR lack of understanding. Fighters have always been a major part of sci-fi, mainly because small craft have been a huge part of military strategy for a VERY long time.

The biggest advantage to small craft is the ability to use them without risking your primary vessel. In-game, this would translate to the ability to attack someone with just your fighter contingent. And with no limit to how many fighters you can purchase,

I can already hear the cries of "that's not fair!" But remember, it would take more deck space to get the equivalent attack/defense with fighters than without, so you're paying for the advantage.


That is what I suggested: Fighters as ship modules.

Yes, it would probably make sense that fighters are 'modules' but they could still occupy a special place on the ship instead of clogging up the weapons slider. A 'Bay' slider might make sense to collect them. I wouldn't go as far as saying that they should or would get special abilities right away (other than the base stats they would give to the ship), but thats always something that can be considered.

The game is still far from developing an idea like this, so I think it needs to be fleshed out a bit more here.

why not just think of them as mini ships? youd outfit them the same way as you would a normal ship. drones module advancement could either be directly related to normal module advancement (going 5 tiers into regular ship weapons=5 tiers into drone ship weapons) plus a new research line that would include drone limited module types. Or they could have their own full-scale research tree with an extra line or two for drone exclusive module types. (module types=modules that produce the same effect, i.e. regular ship hull is under the same module type as drone hull seeing as they both increase hull)

Yeah, I was thinking a 'Hangar' or 'Bay' tab would be appropriate. I'm glad to hear that you're thinking about fighters, even if it IS way down the road. We'll keep fleshing it our for ya.

Mini-ships would be good for nothing but planet defense. It's not like they can have their own energy supply to do missions or take any other kind of actual action. They would be a more of a nuisance at that as well. If I warp 3 of them away will they die when they run out of oxygen? If the user is online they will put them right back before I can even hit the invasion button.

If they are modules I would think there has to be something to seperate them from conventional attack and defense modules other than the ability to stack with existing weaponry. Decks are in a short enough supply that stacking really isn't the issue. My only idea to seperate them from normal attack/defense modules was to make the maintenance cost RIDICULOUSLY high since they will probably get destroyed on a regular basis. If I were to think of other possible disincentives though it would probably be the possibility of losing the module or the possibility of losing crew; both of which would be pretty serious. That might be the difference between drones and fighters.

There are probably other ways to seperate the concept from attack/defense modules aside from making them flat out better then just providing other disincentives but I can't really think of any without making the idea more complex than it needs to be. There are many types of module that might do more than simple attack/defense; Boarding craft (raid bonus), bombers (invasion bonus), mechs (raiding+invasion?), drones (no lost crew), probes (scanning?), shuttles... basically whatever someone could think of and put into game terms.

As for the tech involved, I think that should be another thing that would make the modules special. The requirements for any module are simply whatever the developer says they are, and small craft don't really contain tech that isn't already contained in the existing tech tree, so I think most of them should have multiple tech requirements. Like a stealth fighter would obviously require some stealth tech... and also maneuvering thrusters some weapon tech, some hull tech... I think the hardest part of it would be designing all the individual modules so it might just be easiest to have some basic types and just have them go up in model # or name based on every 2 or so tech tiers above the base model's requirements.

I would think these modules would be called 'squadrons' or something like that and take up enough space that smaller ships couldn't really hold them.

Iit's good to hear you think this idea has potential, Dan!

As i've said before, my personal thoughts on this would be that the fighters would provide you with stats in BOTH attack and defense. But they wouldn't be as good as actual weapons, consoles, or thrusters, since they are sharing their specialism in two areas.

As for having a research tree for them, I again agree with this - and previously suggested the idea too. We could easily come up with ideas for what the techs might be. Hell, I could probably come up with ideas myself:

Hangar Bays
Fighter craft need dedicated launch and maintenance facilities. Research in this area will provide the tools needed to construct and maintain squadrons of defensive fighters.
Allows: Hangar Modules, Basic Fighter Chassis

Miniaturisation
Research into the creation of small devices that are capable of performing the same functions as an existing, larger device. Research in this area should make it possible to create the weapons and defence systems needed construct small fighter craft.
Allows: Fighter Attack and Defence Modules

Fast-Response Launch Protocols
Fighters can turn the tide of a battle, but only if there is enough time to launch our squadrons when we come under attack. Research in this area will allow us to create fighters that can launch and respond to threats much more quickly.
Allows: Defence Fighter

Reinforced Fighter Chassis
The defensive strength of our fighters can be enhanced with some of the latest developments in armor plating.
Allows: Fighter Defence Upgrade

Mobile Repair Facilities
To maintain an effective fighter squadron, you need to have the ability to repair damaged fighters. Research in this area will allow for the creation of tools to repair, rearm, and refuel our fighters.
Allows: Fighter Repairs

Phase Pulse Cannons
Phase Pulse Cannons are devastating for their size. They have long been seen as ideal replacements for the weapons on our fighter craft, but the power requirements have until now exceeded the capabilities of our power cores. Recent developments can now make Phase Pulse Cannons standard equipment for our fighter craft.
Allows: Fighter Attack Upgrade

Plasma Bombs
Superheated plasmas can 'eat' through even the heaviest hull platings. Payloads of superheated plasma therefore have great potential as a bombing weapon. Research in the containment and use of superheated plasmas would allow for the construction of bomber craft.
Allows: Plasma Bomber


What do people think? It isn't that hard to come up with some techs.

Doesn't anyone even listen to me? I already said: new tab, call them squadrons, store in hangar.
And, as a change to one of my pervious ideas, slots in a hangar can be gained through ranks.