As I have done previously, viewtopic.php?f=4&t=26743&hilit=+why+you+should+hit+back, I have again been conducting several pvp tests. Most of the information I present won't be earth shattering news, but I think it will confirm a hypothesis or two. Be on the look out for them in the weeks to come. In this test, I wanted to check the claim and frequency that the lower rank will steal more research on average when fighting against a higher rank over time. As with Krauzen in my last test, I needed a target that couldn't play dead for two days and escape me. I also needed someone lower ranked than me, yet aggressive enough to want to fight back. Thus, it would need to be a kills leaderboard player. With the, shall we say, tension between CN and Ni, Bloodynine made the ideal target.

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Goals

1. To encourage players to fight back. There is no reason to be afraid of anyone. There are lots of reasons to be smart and tactical about your play; but zero reasons to fear any ship.

2. To show you, step by step, more tricks of the trade. You don't have to love Pvp like me, but it is still good to have a better grasp of the strategies involved.

3. To remind you to have fun. It is a game.

Disclaimers

1. This is not intended to flame or embarrass Bloodynine or CN. It is just following the math of the experiment.

2. This is not intended to brag or prove how good I am. It is just following the math of the experiment.

3. This is not intended to be a complete picture between me vs Bloodynine. It fails to take into account all the fighting since the conflict began. It fails to take into account previous raids, hacks, disables, or planets stolen. This only is snap shot of the last few "days." It is just following the math the experiment.

4. This is not intended to be a complete picture of me vs other CN ships. One person, Teneka is a bit ahead of me on ALL the numbers count. This data fails to show that info. It is just following the math the experiment.

5. This is not intended to be a complete picture of all my actions or all of his actions either. I still regularly shoot random ships from the battle tab and a few alerts. I spend my energy and TMs in a number of ways. He indicated by comm message that he was distracted by other things as well. It is just following the math of the experiment.

6. This is not intended to reflect consecutive days. Let me stress that point again. I am making no claim that these "days" were directly back to back. Sometimes there was a day or two between my attack and Bloodynine's response and vise versa (but they are all within the same week). In the interest of full disclosure, I need to say that I purposefully "prairie dogged" one day and kept my resources emptied (the reasons for this will be shared in the next test topic). But being on the leaderboard means we can't halc up and hide forever; perhaps as a temporary tactical manuver, but not forever. If an action is made by one, a reply is certain by the other. Whether sooner or later, it is inevitable. This is what I mean by "days." It is just following the math of the experiment.

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Here we go:

I killed Bloodynine and zeroed raids to start the conflict. I didn't track my initial numbers. I was more interested in his reply.


Day1
I was disabled by Kirkeas (again. lol). Bloodly showes up to enact his revenge.
He uses 3 clouds, 1 flare

1 hour, 20 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine838 Mineral Units were stolen from you by TheBloodyNine
1 hour, 20 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine2016 Mineral Units were stolen from you by TheBloodyNine
1 hour, 21 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1517 Mineral Units were stolen from you by TheBloodyNine

1 hour, 21 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1579 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
1 hour, 21 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine809 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
1 hour, 21 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1788 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
1 hour, 21 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1668 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
1 hour, 21 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1841 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
1 hour, 22 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine923 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
1 hour, 22 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1065 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
1 hour, 22 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1976 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
1 hour, 22 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1033 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
1 hour, 22 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1314 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
1 hour, 22 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1047 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
1 hour, 22 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1715 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
1 hour, 23 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1957 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
1 hour, 23 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1605 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
1 hour, 23 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1369 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
1 hour, 23 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine808 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
1 hour, 23 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1389 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
1 hour, 23 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1830 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
1 hour, 23 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1449 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
1 hour, 24 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1456 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
1 hour, 24 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine573 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
1 hour, 24 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1540 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
1 hour, 24 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine2111 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
1 hour, 24 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1847 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
1 hour, 24 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1363 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
1 hour, 25 mins ago From: TheBloodyNineTheBloodyNine hacked you and set off your Quantum Firewall Trap!
1 hour, 25 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1971 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine

Totals
3 Minerals= 4,371 24 Hacks= 38,026

I arrived on the scene to find him already blown up by someone else. I launch my counter attack (which I guess could be considered the counter counter attack seeing as how I started it, but anyway) I use 3 Flares, 1 Cloud

Hack Successful. You steal 1288 Research Points from the enemy databaseYou gain 1 Blue Badge
Hack Successful. You steal 405 Research Points from the enemy database
Hack Successful. You steal 698 Research Points from the enemy database
Hack Successful. You steal 1130 Research Points from the enemy database
Hack Successful. You steal 1045 Research Points from the enemy database
Hack Successful. You steal 777 Research Points from the enemy database
Hack Successful. You steal 920 Research Points from the enemy database
Hack Successful. You steal 595 Research Points from the enemy database
Hack Successful. You steal 1279 Research Points from the enemy database
Hack Successful. You steal 1193 Research Points from the enemy database
Hack Successful. You steal 875 Research Points from the enemy database
Hack Successful. You steal - Research Points from the enemy database
Hack Successful. You steal 1267 Research Points from the enemy database
Hack Successful. You steal 447 Research Points from the enemy database
Hack Successful. You steal 1130 Research Points from the enemy database
Hack Successful. You steal 586 Research Points from the enemy database
Hack Successful. You steal 984 Research Points from the enemy database
Hack Successful. You steal 603 Research Points from the enemy database
Hack Successful. You steal 889 Research Points from the enemy database
Hack Successful. You steal 975 Research Points from the enemy database
Hack Successful. You steal 846 Research Points from the enemy database
Hack Successful. You steal 1271 Research Points from the enemy database
Hack Successful. You steal 1221 Research Points from the enemy database
Hack Successful. You steal 306 Research Points from the enemy database
--At this point, he had actions left, but the actual research points were zeroed--

Raid Successful. You steal 388 Artifact Points from the enemy!
Raid Critically Successful! You steal 2637 Artifact Points from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 462 Mineral Units from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 717 Artifact Points from the enemy!
Raid Successful, but nothing of value. He just logged on to clear.
Meaning his production time is likely near.

Totals

Mineral= 462 Arifacts= 3,742 Hacks= 21,663

I waited a few more hours. He logged back on and had repaired. I blasted him again and continue to receive:

Hacked for another 8,597
Raid Successful. You steal 1081 Artifact Points from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 537 Artifact Points from the enemy!
Raid Critically Successful! You steal 1426 Mineral Units from the enemy!
Raid Critically Successful! You steal 955 Mineral Units from the enemy!
Raid Critically Successful! You steal 1443 Mineral Units from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 565 Mineral Units from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 379 Mineral Units from the enemy!
Raid Critically Successful! You steal 2452 Artifact Points from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 738 Artifact Points from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 341 Mineral Units from the enemy!

Results At End of My TM Actions
Ahead Kills: 2-0
Ahead Artifacts: 8,550
Ahead Minerals: 1,199
Down Research: 7,766
^This is very noteworthy. I hacked him 9 more action counts than he hacked me and still find myself down Research.


Day 2
I was already shot down by Blitz. Bloody stepped up to the plate and began bashing me. He used 2 clouds, 1 flare.

10 hours, 12 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1734 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
10 hours, 12 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1299 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
10 hours, 12 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1991 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
10 hours, 12 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1379 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
10 hours, 12 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1809 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
10 hours, 13 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine661 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
10 hours, 13 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1580 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
10 hours, 13 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1899 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
10 hours, 13 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine2068 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
10 hours, 13 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine863 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
10 hours, 13 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine2065 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
10 hours, 13 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine2053 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
10 hours, 14 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1917 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
10 hours, 14 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1116 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
10 hours, 14 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1805 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
10 hours, 14 mins ago From: TheBloodyNineTheBloodyNine hacked you and set off your Quantum Firewall Trap!
10 hours, 14 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1256 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine

He stole a total of 25,495 research.
He came back again (3rd time) and used 2 clouds, 1 flare. I had already emptied resources so there was nothing for him to steal.

In my reply, I shot him down and proceeded to rape the lifeless corpse.
I used no clouds or flares and my hack reply= 21,047
In the interest of time, I didn't bother to copy paste them all. Instead I just used the total in my production counter after it was cleared and emptied.

Raid Successful. You steal 919 Mineral Units from the enemy!You gain 1 Yellow Badge
Raid Critically Successful! You steal 1537 Artifact Points from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 775 Artifact Points from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 511 Mineral Units from the enemy!
Raid Critically Successful! You steal 1701 Mineral Units from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 483 Artifact Points from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 993 Artifact Points from the enemy!
Raid Critically Successful! You steal 2634 Artifact Points from the enemy!
sful. You steal 917 Mineral Units from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 461 Mineral Units from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 718 Artifact Points from the enemy!
Raid Critically Successful! You steal 1889 Artifact Points from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 563 Artifact Points from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 391 Mineral Units from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 1344 Artifact Points from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 1156 Artifact Points from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 923 Artifact Points from the enemy!
Raid Critically Successful! You steal 1303 Artifact Points from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 776 Artifact Points from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 430 Artifact Points from the enemy!
Raid Critically Successful! You steal 1753 Artifact Points from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 866 Artifact Points from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 612 Mineral Units from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 445 Mineral Units from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 1036 Artifact Points from the enemy!
Raid Critically Successful! You steal 1973 Mineral Units from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 1208 Mineral Units from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 719 Artifact Points from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 899 Mineral Units from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 1344 Artifact Points from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 1329 Artifact Points from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 1076 Mineral Units from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 522 Artifact Points from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 918 Artifact Points from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 1080 Artifact Points from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 1284 Artifact Points from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 1069 Mineral Units from the enemy!
Raid Successful. You steal 591 Mineral Units from the enemy!
Hack Successful. You steal 962 Research Points from the enemy database

Got lazy and stopped my side of the copy/paste. The totals are correct as follows:

My reply
Hacks= 30,663
Minerals= 15,765
Artifacts= 42,683


End Results Day Two
Ahead Kills: 1-0
Ahead Artifacts: 42,683
Ahead Minerals: 15,765
Ahead Research: 10,578

Day two was nice for me. But truthfully, I used 16 more action counts than him this day. If I had stopped count for count, the research number would be much lower.

Cumulative Results At End of My TM Actions
Ahead Kills: 3-0
Ahead Artifacts: 51,233
Ahead Minerals: 16,964
Ahead Research: 2,812

Actions Left Disables: 99, Raids: 101, Hacks: 85- now the challenge is to stay awake and cover my ass for the next 24hrs til my actions go back down. But, more than likely, someone will spot me on the leaderboard and come rape me. bahahaha

I was disabled by OldRedEyes. Side note- he used a ton of artifacts, which is all well and good, but he didn't check to see if I had any resources worth stealing first. He came away with nada.

Day 3

Since I was already down, there is no new disable count. Bloody uses 5 coulds, 3 flares total
Likewise, when I was ready to return fire, he was already down. I used no clouds or flares.

10 hours, 33 mins ago From: TheBloodyNineTheBloodyNine has struck your ship with a quantum flare, reducing your scan ability for a short time.View Your Ship
10 hours, 33 mins ago From: TheBloodyNineTheBloodyNine has struck your ship with a positron cloud, disabling your cloaking ability for a short time.View Your Ship
10 hours, 33 mins ago From: TheBloodyNineTheBloodyNine has struck your ship with a positron cloud, disabling your cloaking ability for a short time.View Your Ship
11 hours, 47 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1449 Mineral Units were stolen from you byTheBloodyNine
11 hours, 47 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine14 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
11 hours, 47 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine2023 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
11 hours, 48 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1537 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
11 hours, 48 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1724 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
11 hours, 48 mins ago From: TheBloodyNineTheBloodyNine failed to hack into your ship computer. You counter-hack and steal 674 Research Points!
11 hours, 48 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine563 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
11 hours, 48 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1032 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
11 hours, 48 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1741 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
11 hours, 48 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine670 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
11 hours, 49 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1034 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
11 hours, 49 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1920 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
11 hours, 49 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1985 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
11 hours, 49 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine2023 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
11 hours, 49 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine2174 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
11 hours, 49 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine2183 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
11 hours, 49 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1012 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
11 hours, 50 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1959 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
11 hours, 50 mins ago From: TheBloodyNineTheBloodyNine has struck your ship with a quantum flare, reducing your scan ability for a short time.View Your Ship
11 hours, 50 mins ago From: TheBloodyNineTheBloodyNine has struck your ship with a positron cloud, disabling your cloaking ability for a short time.View Your Ship
11 hours, 50 mins ago From: TheBloodyNineTheBloodyNine failed to hack into your ship computer. You counter-hack and steal 674 Research Points! 11 hours, 50 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1263 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
11 hours, 51 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1014 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
11 hours, 51 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine2014 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine 11 hours, 51 mins ago From: TheBloodyNineTheBloodyNine failed to hack into your ship computer. You counter-hack and steal 674 Research Points!
11 hours, 51 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1804 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
11 hours, 51 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1692 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
11 hours, 51 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1744 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
11 hours, 51 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine2020 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
11 hours, 52 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1841 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
11 hours, 52 mins ago From: TheBloodyNineTheBloodyNine hacked you and set off your Quantum Firewall Trap!
11 hours, 52 mins ago From: TheBloodyNine1655 Research Points were hacked and stolen from your database by TheBloodyNine
11 hours, 52 mins ago From: TheBloodyNineTheBloodyNine has struck your ship with a quantum flare, reducing your scan ability for a short time.View Your Ship
11 hours, 52 mins ago From: TheBloodyNineTheBloodyNine has struck your ship with a positron cloud, disabling your cloaking ability for a short time.View Your Ship
11 hours, 52 mins ago From: TheBloodyNineTheBloodyNine has struck your ship with a positron cloud, disabling your cloaking ability for a short time.

17 hours, 36 mins ago From: Johny4563 Artifact Points were stolen from you by Johny45

His attack:
Minerals= 1,449
Artifacts= 0
Research stolen= 36,619 (3 crit fails)

My reply:
Minerals= 17,139
Artifacts= 31,838
Hack= 24,028 (4 crit fails)

End Results Day Three
Draw Kills: 0-0
Ahead Artifacts: 31,838
Ahead Minerals: 15,690
Down Research: 12,591


Cumulative Results At End of My TM Actions
Ahead Kills: 3-0
Ahead Artifacts: 83,071
Ahead Minerals: 32,654
Down Research: 9,779

Battlefield Conclusions:

Lower Rank
To fight effectively, the lower rank must pester the higher rank by zeroing the hacks. While the research lost doesn't really hurt the higher rank, it does help the lower rank to either complete the tech trees faster or convert the research stolen into credits (possibly making up for what was lost in minerals). This strategy has the added bonus of possiblly crit hacking a valuable planet location. One good planet would more than make up for the spanking the lower rank takes in the raids catagory. The lower rank must pin its hopes on this strategy.

Higher Rank
To fight effectively, the higher rank must rely on the strength of its crew to over power the lower rank and zero the raids. While the loss of minerals & artifacts doesn't really hurt the lower rank, it most certainly gives the higher rank a boost over time. The extra 83k artifacts wasn't a gold mine, but it was indeed useful. The higher rank can also hack, can recover some of the lost research, and has the chance of finding a planet. However, hacking will constantly bring in diminishing returns. Also consider, if you are high enough, the fact that you don't have any tech trees left to complete; so you haven't lost anything except for possible converted research to credits.

meh, not every lower rank will go for hacks.

nice experiment, wish i would get that many research points from hacks as i generally get less than 500... Would be interesting to see difference in stats at the time e.g. scan, cloak, buffs e.t.c. looking forward to seeing more!

I don't know his stats of course. However, I am happy to supply mine.

Scan: 9499- typical daily, unbuffed
Cloak: 5248- unbuffed, but not typical, usually much much lower
I am on the leaderboard, so I can't really cloak hide anyway

6581 scan
4826 cloak

hiding does me no good either for the same reason- hence my selection as the experimental subject

I generally retaliate against anyone who hits me to discourage sniping - though how i retaliate varies
Only reason why unrep had no kills against him is that he lay doggo once others disabled him. No criticism there i do the same myself. to effectively hack him i only really need three artifacts 2 for scan one for cloak
To raid a ship with more than twice my crew - well- generally it is an inefficient use of tm's

The results of raids and hacks are to a large extent determined by the level of ship you hit- there are some big puching bags up in the high levels- number of strong ships actually surprisingly small. i can effectively raid many ships over 1000 in level- all depends on how well set up they are really

Although i agree with the bulk of what unrep says there are risks in any strategy. If the big ship gets a dose of nose out of joint then alerts you- be prepared to turtle and calm. or continue the fight but stay down most of the time and only surface when you have the energy to fight or are about to level

Correction. Not the only reason. I did that for one day because it matched up with another test I was running. The other times I was up and anyone could take me down, it just happens that Kirs, Blitz, and Oldred got me while I was offline before you could.

You weren't up while i was - assumptions are a curse- but then again my statement could have been clearer