scrub this. i don't know what i was thinking
go to page 2.

All I have to say to this is... AMEN!

Honestly, TA was a level 3 base for some time and we worked to get to where we are now. In fact, a lot of legions were lower at some point and are growing now. We have gotten to level 5 because of working together and we have started to become much more powerful. That is just my Two cents on that though so you can continue thinking those level 3s are so useless.

Well you know what, so was SGO.

The only reason its here right now is because of hard work, and devotion to legion, by MULTIPLE people. If it's a level 3 with 20-50 people, They are probably not useless. If it's a legion with around 5 people, none of which know how to play the game and most of which don't even go on the forum (which would be the majority of level 3s, by the way) , then yeah, you've caught me. I do think a legion like that is "so useless"

Can, it is more than likely about the 'feel' of gameplay. By moving to a new legion you not only enter a new environment with new leaders, you also have the potential for clashes of personalities and differences of opinions. For someone who's just playing GL for the fun aspects of it, changing legions will seem an unwarranted risk (remember, no one really likes change contrary to what Obama tells us). Just look at some of the infamous legion mergers that SO didn't go well... But rather than name anyone unrelated, just look at our now defunct sister legion High Charity. It went through a couple mergers but each time it did so the increase was only temporary as the new situation wasn't always to everybody's liking and people from one or both sides decided to try and find more suitable surroundings.

Why muck around with a chance like that when you're already having fun?

Couple= 1,1 merger and it pretty much killed us in the end, then trying to get another finished us. I got to enjoy the next 7 hours moving everyone into new homes, and there must be only a half dozen or so members of High Charity still playing. Be careful with mergers, they aren't always what you expect.

i am one of the people billik was refering too i helped moved and am still playing lol!

What bugs me is all those 1 year old legions with only 1-5 people in them. You'd think they'd get the hint that no one is joining them.
If a legion gets over 20 people then they have a good chance of surviving. But these old-ass 1 man legions are just pitiful.

The legion I'm with recently upgraded to a level 4 base, however while we were level 3, we turned down merge offers for several reasons
1. The legion was created by a group of friends and family who wanted to play a game together
2. It gave us a sense of accomplishment (compared to comparatively high ranked players building the base.) when we leveled up the base
3. Why should we rob ourselves of the experience of building and leading a legion, just to join a more established legion?

yeah sure, it may be harder for us to be "pretty good players" but atleast we're not being fed by a silver spoon or pulling our creditcards whenever we want something on GL. we work hard in game and get the rewards, rather than joining a large legion which basically is giving handouts, which inturn robs us of the need(and experience) of balancing your planets/upkeep.

if you join a research legion and can research whatever you want (but can't afford it) then you just ask for help from your legion, where as with smaller legions, you research what you need (and can afford) at the time.

feel free to reply/pm me if you don't agree~ but that's my opinion, from my viewpoint in a small legion (11 loyal players, 2 inactives)

just a small side note, top 3 ranks in the legion are 147, 114 and 107. we're bringing down a T.O hyperseeker on our own, and doing pretty well.

"Pretty good" is subjective~ by our view, we're doing just fine.

Pretty good isn't all subjective. If you get on the leaderboards, that's pretty good. No ifs, and or buts about it.

As for your legion, as long as you guys are actively playing and stuff, that's fine. You guys reached lvl 4, didn't you? Did all of you contribute? Are you all not slacking and doing almost nothing? See if you all play actively, that's fine. Be a lvl 3. But if you're going to sit on a lvl 3 base for 9 months, then there's something wrong with that picture.

Going into a bigger legion doesn't rob you of the experience. In fact, it's the opposite. You GET experience by being with other experienced players, you do more in a bigger legion than in a smaller one (and that in itself can give you experience). As for balancing upkeep and planets, that's not the case. If it's an artifact/mining based legion, you're not going to have that problem. If it's a research legion, then you don't need to put that research into ship modules. You can easily put it into planet structures or base logistics. You don't need to research better modules if you don't have to.

If you want to build and lead a legion, be committed to it. That's all i have to say about that.

I'm unclear what concern it is of yours what these folks do or why you are compelled to judge the quality of their game experience. I'm sure they know where the big legions are if they are interested.

Any thoughts on leaving them alone to do their thing as they seem to be leaving you alone?

And what concern is it of yours to what I ask or what I think or what I want to know?

Answer me. Am I going after every person here that is in a level 3 base, throwing bad PMs at them, and doing the same thing in-game? No. So unless people are required to reply to every forum topic there is, they have the choice not to. The only way i'm bugging them is targeting their base or making a rebuttle to something they say. If they wanna read this, and curse me in silence, so be it.

Any thoughts on having me say something with more hostility? Or are we done dancing?

You started a public thread about people whose decisions you disapprove of. You heard a rather intelligent statement by a prior player who indicated that he plays for reasons other than the leaderboard. You dismissed it out of hand. You stand in judgment of what others do, so I am returning the favor.

So, I will repeat my simple question that you dodged once. Why should those players be concerned with what you think and why are you compelled to stand in judgment of them?

There is nothing about you I find intimidating, so it's a waste of both of our time for you continue that direction. Should you wish to answer, set the false bravado aside and provide some credentials for your position of authority on the matter.

They shouldn't be concerned. I am just asking a couple simple questions, and they can answer if they want. And why am i compelled to judge them? Because i'm human.

And tell me, why should i be concerned with what you say?

I don't intend for you to be concerned with me.

What you may not know is that I am at least twice your level, have been far higher on the leaderboard, and I left a top legion to start my own thing from scratch.

So when I hear that leaders of small legions aren't "giving your members any real gameplay experience [and] have little to offer compared to the other legions", I was compelled to question exactly what you thought you were talking about.

Imagine my level of hostility to know you think I am "just greedy for a position of power or [I] want to go down a path that will suck you dry of everything you have."

"So tell me, how much sentimental value does your level 3 base have that stops you and your members from becoming pretty good players?" Well, I've scrimped and saved and I've provided my little band of misfits and new players with a level 4 base. I'm a bit sentimental about it because I know EXACTLY why I am playing. If you doubt that I'm a good player, you will understand hostility.

I don't think that will be necessary though. I suspect that while you had no intention of offense, we understand each other more clearly and we'll all go on doing what we want. Happy hunting.

*reserved for my popcorn gif*

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but what I think canshow is trying to say here is that it's useless to stick to a failed legion when there are other established legions.
If you're sticking with a group of friends or family then fine, that's ok. But take a look at the legion search, type in something random and you'll see what he's talking about.
Dozens of 1-5 man legions with varying degrees of inactivity that are 9-12 months old. What benefits do they give when your surrounded by inactives?
When your legion is going somewhere then it's good. But when that somewhere is failure it's time to bail.

It happened to me when I first started. I created a legion and got 4 others to join it. 3 days later, no one else joined, no one talked and 2 went inactive. (I could tell because they hadn't gone on after they joined)
So I disbanded the legion and found a legion with 22 people in it.
That legion was Delta Surfers.

Aside from the personal glory of helping to build up a legion, there are at least 2 more reasons I can think of that smaller legions would stay where they are:

1. They are a feeder legion to a more established one anyway. If I were to start my own legion I would most certainly create two level 3 bases. One base of research, one base of artifacts. This way, I could shuffle members back and forth according to their individual needs. Some of what you are seeing out there are certainly feeder bases; even though they may not be fully recognized as such.

2. They may be slow rankers anyway. Not everyone wants an active 4 times a day log in legion. I know several folks who enjoy the game but only log 2 or 3 times a week. Seems a huge waste of resources to me. I even tried to tell them, "at least get your daily reward," but slow go is what makes them happy. Not every new ship is a multi trying to take advantage of a massive artifact producing base. There really are new people joining the game and taking their time to learn it.

No popcorn necessary. We all agree that players are capable of slogging along in bad situations. We also agree that there are ways of changing that. My concern was the sweeping generalization that those players don't know better and should share the same goals.

If they want something different, they will be motivated to do something about it. If they're content where they are, leave them alone. It's not for us to judge. It's a game and we all play at different levels of interest and for different reasons. If we were all highly motivated, there's be a lot less easy reds, and no one wants that.

if steve jobs had accepted this kind of 'advice' when he was building up apple the first time (and the second time), that would have drastically changed how the world looks like today. every budding entrepreneur is faced with this exact question when starting out, and yet you dismiss personal initiative and the desire for self-actualization out of hand. heck, maybe Dan should just pack things in here at GL and just go work for zynga or EA ? what's the point of trying to do his own thing ?

why would i continue to stay in my 2-man level 3 legion ? the judgemental attitude and beliefs expressed in your post are EXACTLY why i would not join any legion that has you or anyone that believes as you do in any position of authority. i don't tolerate bullies in real life and i sure as hell won't allow them to contaminate my leisure time.

as for leaderboards, i'm not there yet, but i will be. and i'll have gotten there under my own steam, which gives me immensely more satisfaction than if i had leeched off of other members in a 'more developed' legion. my legion-mate cares not a whit for pvp, and continues to play only the missions. the game allows players to play however they wish and at whatever pace they wish, and that is the way i like it.

SenatorHung, give Canshow a break. I'm sure that part of what's behind this question has everything to do with his frustration at building a legion. To float around the teens, twenties for months and to see so many podunk legions floating around who not only could increase your legions numbers and benefit from the payouts, but also to help remove some of the strain of holding it all together off your shoulders is annoying. Because running a legion isn't easy even when they're fully established and funded. Building one is obviously moreso.