A lot of talk has been made regarding groups such as the DOO. As i read the discussions and the players who post them Im even more convinced that groups of all sizes, big and small belong in the game.

1) Most, almost all the complaints actually, come from what i consider higher level players. not the little rank 30 or 60. I know a bunch have a beef with us. They usually are the looser in a conflict with a member. Is there abuse, sure nothing is perfect but consider the alternative. Big and Really big players become as Gods in the game unless a person is willing to spend the same $ to get there. Lets be clear about this, if you didnt start at the very beginning and are now over rank 200, you spent money to get there. Your money has gone a long way to help the game, but does that mean the you should be able to stomp anyone who offends you into the dirt. Am I supposed to have to rely on these players better judgement? Well I dont have to.

The only thing that stopped the big player farming whoever they wished was a group like the DOO. As big and bad as a player was/is, they had to worry about an attack by 50 or more good players and so found other targets to farm. The prospect of getting alerted was a genuine concern and consideration.. Without groups like the DOO, very high rank players could and would do as they pleased...

2) An argument to confine group size has been suggested. Again this benefits the the big and powerful disproportional y, as a group of large players could be in a position of absolute dominance. Once again only force of numbers truly overcomes this. I have given this example b4 but i have seen further proof first hand. I used to play Star Fleet Commander. Then a number of rule changes were implemented that totally favored the large long time player. There were 2 in particular that destroyed the game, but the most relevant to this discussion was the following. No matter how big a player got, or how strong his defenses a mass group attack could succeed. I have seen as many as 50 players join a group attack against a huge foe. The rule was changed to limit the number who could join an attack to 6. Instantly many small groups became invulnerable and now the galaxy is a wasteland. You can see for yourself, just join and look at the galaxies. Each solar system had 9 or more occupied planets now OMG look for yourself , except for the lower galaxies its a wasteland. Now only the hard core remain. I dont want the same thing to happen to Galaxy Legion. Not only is it a much better game without question, Dan has made us feel like we are part of the game and not just along for the ride. Our voices and input matter. The best example is the Zolian analyzer, a lot of people complained, and he fixed it PDQ.

3) Whats the solution? It wont be perfect. I truly do understand the opposition to large groups. I know that there are irresponsible players in our group and we need to do a better job of kicking them out of the group. myself included, we need to be doing more to confront these people. I have a huge legion and people who know me know i dont alert very often at all. Check my comm, you will see people i fight with that are not alerted. I will not brag but i feel i am well liked by my legion and when i alert my "loyal legion" really do respond in numbers to my call. So i have always been careful about who i alert, especially under the old alert system. That means i also get that there are jerks out there, who alert people who only attack back after they were attacked first or alert a player whose planet they have invaded. Dan i hate to ask you for logs, i remember last time i asked lol, but perhaps some kind of permanent planetary history along with each player having a log of hack/raids/disables with time and who. that would give us the tools we need as a group to do a better job of policing ourselves.

4) This is a Facebook game, a social networking site game. It only seems natural that groups form, since they are essentially just a social network. Some people enjoy doing things as a group, and groups should be allowed to evolve on there own. So if they get big, they get big. if they choose to limit membership, they can choose that path as well. Both have there pros and cons. Just as i have to make compromises in putting my ship together, if im real high attack im more susceptible to hacks or if im set to hack/counter hack im more open to being disabled. So if you want a small group you have more control and power but less overall power. Big groups have more overall power, but less control to direct it where needed. Nothing perfect, no matter what Dan settles on, someone wont be happy. Theres a saying that the best compromises are ones in which no side is really happy. Lets hope we get one of those.

In conclusion i feel that all group sizes are necessary in the near and long term. That nothing is perfect but that , the combat needs to be put back into a combat game. That there will be abuses in a game with as many players as Galaxy legion, and that it needs to be accepted but limited and minimized as much as possible. That this IS a competition, hence leader boards, and that in a competition there are winner's and looser's. That lastly , the game is still beta and is going Thur some growing pains...Thanks Dan for a great game...and I hope we can make it more fun again!

This should not be in the support and issues. And something tells me this is 5 posts away from a flame war, lets just stop this. Everyone is dead set in their opinion and because of that these kinds of discussions will only cause problems.

what the hell is a flam war??????? i have seen it come up now in 3 post please advice.....

A flam war is 2 people competing to see who can do a faster 1-handed drum-roll.

Its when people take what was a legit argument and turn it into an insult fest. It doesn't go anywhere because theres no real facts or well thought out foresight its just people fighting with opinions and self justification. In the end nothing is accomplished and everyone is angry. Unfortunately the topic of Orgs always seems to turn into this due to arguers rarely having any hard facts (or something similar) to throw and on the rare occasion that someone does it is usually ignored, overlooked, misinterpreted, forgotten, it just is never actually answered. So this topic is on the way to be a flame war.

Now you propose to tell people what can and cannot discussed? I dont understand why it does not belong here? Its an issue, and something I would like to discuss. I see you will have something bad to say about everything i post, so i will just take it with a grain of salt. If however, you are only posting here to "start" flame wars i hope something will be done with your ability to participate in discussions. Please point out any inflammatory statements in my above post as i am at a loss to find any. Just so you know, your participation is not required, so if you feel you cant control yourself enough to get into a flame war, please find some where else to muckrake. Dan i hope you have taken note of this as i am only talking about the game and trying to improve it. Coths comments do nothing to further the discussion and improve our gaming experience.

Chris a flame war is when people insult each other...Im still trying to figure out Who i insulted

Im not saying youv insulted anyone, I never did, and Im not dictating what can and cannot be said on the forums. Im just trying to point out that this is, as you can see, a touchy topic. This in combination with the fact that no argument over this has ever gone anywhere makes me think its best left as is. As much as id love to voice my opinion on this, its not going to accomplish anything because someone is going to take something personal and start a flame war. As such I think its stupid to argue about this seeing as it just get deleted and people will dislike each other more.

Im not trying to start anything, im trying to end something before it starts. Because I for one am tired of running around in circles about this topic and i'm sure others are too.

well if you do not like big groups then why play in a game made for them..... the point of a game like this is team work....if ou do not like what is going on in the game start your own group to combat the injustice..... DOO was created for that verry purpose. If you see somthing wrong and want to fix it put your own team togeather.... and as for corth stop posting things in this form that are not pertaining to it. your post seem like your trying to get what was it you called it a flam war going... he is only stating his veiw on the whole matter and it seems to be a verry viable topic... as for the rest if somthing in the GL is not going well sugest your game thouts to dan.... coming on here and trashing groups is not the answer. groups are needed in a social game. what makes it a SOCIAL GAME!!!!!!! you do not tell a nations that their army is getting to big you can not have anymore members do you .... no you build up your own army and ither by force or diplomatic means work it out.

Coth please do state your view and do it forcefully...theres a difference between spirited debate and flaming..you just may make the point that brings me over to your point of view...you can never know if you dont try...i really just want to discuss where we can go with the alert system and since groups affect that so much...they are very intertwined...what do you think?...IM SICK OF KILLING NPC...whats your thoughts? you have been involved in the game a long time, you must have ideas...since your not a mod why not have your say....If your hot tempered turn down or sit on the sidelines....I have an ISSUE with the game right now and enjoy finding solutions....so you can choose to be part of the solution or the problem..the choice as always is your.

Im trying to be, but as time has shown this is a topic best left as is. Im thinking you feel that its unfair that Noci and I were able to argue about this stuff before and now things like that just get deleted. If so I dont blame you its a bit unfair, the problem is though is that someone is going to take something out of context and personally. Me and Noci had a bit of a system, even when we insulted each other we knew there was truth behind those insults, when we generalized things we were there in the making of those generalizations so we knew the context of what we really meant. In the end we never took things personally and knew if we were taking offense to what the other said, then it was true and we changed or just admit we were wrong. Others though came into our arguments after we had developed our own little system and took the insults out of their context.

In conclusion id love to have a real argument about this I would. But people have proven time and time again (myself included) that this forum, as is, is not mature enough as a whole to have an argument on that topic. It can only cause problems at this point. Thusly I believe it would be more productive to focus on improving the game for instance debating how in-game alliances will work then arguing over this.

The thread can go off topic as it evolves...ive said my views on groups someone can comment on that and advance that discussion if they choose...we can advance it and talk about in game alliances....to me there all part of a big picture eg. your cant discuss a building project without discussion finances ....i just want to talk and not argue....and make the game better, because you seemed to think its personal about you? but your not hearing me then, im really starting to loose my passion for this game because i really have almost nothing to do but improve my ship, conduct my research collect my art/minerals. It may be fine for some people but its not the same game i signed onto or that i came to like so much. this is my main motivation for this thread and my arguments for groups is strongly tied to that idea. MY attempt to save a game i love. still?



PS past is past..please leave that baggage at the door as I have not part of it

This is my comm for the last 6 hours. When ranking up is the most exciting thing that happens in 6 hours...Theres a problem!

45 mins ago
xxxxxxx sent you an alert for the Planet: Halbergan with message: Colonize Planet
49 mins ago
xxxxxx sent you an alert for the Planet: Siberel with message: Reserved, Don't Colonize
1 hour, 18 mins ago
xxxxxx sent you an alert for the Planet: Barbertori with message: Colonize Planet
1 hour, 51 mins ago From: xxxxxx
xxxxxxxx asks for your assistance with the following enemy: Akkiren, Drannik Hub
2 hours, 43 mins ago From: xxxxxxx
xxxxxxxx asks for your assistance with the following enemy: Vortul, Crimson Annihilator
3 hours, 59 mins ago
You've been promoted to Rank 143
Improve Your Ship
4 hours, 14 mins ago
xxxxxxx sent you an alert for the Planet: Fridgete with message: Invade Planet
5 hours, 29 mins ago
xxxxxx sent you an alert for the Planet: Ikristhif with message: Reserved, Don't Colonize
5 hours, 32 mins ago From: Phoebus
xxxxxx asks for your assistance with the following enemy: Yahnosh, Sha'din Hacker
5 hours, 56 mins ago
xxxxxxx sent you an alert for the Planet: Ulfale with message: Reserved, Don't Colonize

BTW my legion is over 350...i can only Imagen what somebody with only 100 looks like

From what I have known, flame wars always consist of multiple people making paragraph-long posts. And those posts usually include the words "I just said..." and "argue" many, many times.

So, the only thing you find fun is getting PvP legion alerts?

No Dan....But when you do your research and other things...i do like to be rewarded for playing smart, i like to be able to judge myself against my peers and those above me. NPC's are fine as a PART of the game and really helped me make my ship much better, but at this point its pretty much the only game in town. Right now the only person on my log worth it is Spoony...I killed him 3 times today and he does not want to fight back, so killing him again...ehh t 3 times in a day seems like plenty when its one way....you can see my activity i take it...i killed over 15 npc's i think ran some missions...essentially did my account duties and when im done....i have no one to fight, no one to protect no one to fear....Spoony is a dangerous hack when he wants to be, part of the fun is the risk too, i have critically failed on him 3 times, funny as it sounds thats fun... as such theres no one to talk to about those battles or calls for assistance...As bad as the old system was, right now it looks like the lesser if 2 evils.

I do enjoy the building part of the game as well and am in an "arms race" with a player of the same rank who you may know...thats fun ...we compare stats all the time and i think my lead is about to evaporate...so thats a new motivation and source of enjoyment....but in that context we also would judge on how far above our rank we can fight

chris,i am sorry for this but Why do i have to visit your wifes tupperware site? I thought this was about galaxy legion thing? Am I missing something?

I am wondering why the question has been argued so much.To me it is really basic. Sense time began there has always been groups formed. For security.For advancement of towns,villages,countries. the need for grouping seems to be for the feeling of comrodery.Sorry for the spelling. In games the need for groups seem to come from the same mindset. To me it is not why, but how are the groups formed as they are...???? it comes down to a singlness of purpose and need. Groups mean power. Just a thought.

And at the same time the only people on my battle tab are DOO members so by doing PVP I would be starting a war. That is an argument against legions.

Well as a DOO admin and i should check first, but if thats the only thing you can do, and its just battle tab anyway, i dont see why we should be at war with you. To be honest many of them may actually welcome some action. But under the new alert system, if all the players on your tab are DOO, do battle. I dont you are a good example though, i believe there are only 2 players over 300 and your one of them. So for you guys the rules are totally broken. I know that i will not be in favor of any group action under the circumstances

Bender, you have spoken for DOO in the past and were wrong. Even though you and I both know that a certain DOO member was causing trouble and lying about it, I still got group attacked for fighting him.

I don't think anyone can speak for DOO. Its an angry lynch mob that only needs one person to get it started. You may not join in but there are plenty who will.