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Feedback: Action limits http://galaxylegion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=976 |
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Author: | webguydan [ Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:14 am ] |
Post subject: | Feedback: Action limits |
There has been quite a bit of feedback recently about 'swarming', or a single player getting bombarded from a large legion with multiple hacks or raids. Also, from a single player using multiple time manipulators, etc etc. Based on this, I would like to discuss: * Do you think a player should have a limit on the number of times they can be hacked or raided in a 24 hour period? * If yes, what should this limit be? Discuss... |
Author: | Cothordin [ Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:16 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Feedback: Action limits |
Yes, 8. Its high enough that people have a chance to get what they want, its low enough people wont lose everything. |
Author: | Nocifer Deathblade [ Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:18 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Feedback: Action limits |
Oh yeah. I would agree on that. My DOO swarms any aggressors who "poke" them then usually leave them alone after 24th hour just to send them message not to mess with DOO but that usually is badly overboard due to my DOO organization being so large. A single easy alert just painted a big red target on that poor aggressor who simply wanted to hack just for fun only to be royally beat up in no time flat by my DOO legion.. I would like to see some time limit to prevent mass-gang up approach. It is too hard to tell everyone not to gang up because I can't see who were attacking that aggressor.. |
Author: | Cothordin [ Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:19 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Feedback: Action limits |
Nocifer Deathblade wrote: Oh yeah. I would agree on that. My DOO swarms any aggressors who "poke" them then usually leave them alone after 24th hour just to send them message not to mess with DOO but that usually is badly overboard due to my DOO organization being so large. A single easy alert just painted a big red target on that poor aggressor who simply wanted to hack just for fun only to be royally beat up in no time flat by my DOO legion.. I would like to see some time limit to prevent mass-gang up approach. It is too hard to tell everyone not to gang up because I can't see who were attacking that aggressor.. they seem to leave messages though, may I suggest that you require them to message and put a limit on how many? |
Author: | Redlaw [ Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:23 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Feedback: Action limits |
I would base it off level, higher level you are stronger and more stuff you should have. Hacking and raiding in my eyes should be limited to once ever ten of there levels (or make it 1 + 1 every ten levels). This would mean that such actions to a player are limited but higher you go better prepped to stopping them you need to be. So if I am level 50 I can be raided or hacked 5 (or 6) times in 24 hours, if I am level 200 that is 20 times (or 21). Growth might seem slow, but it also means lower level players that could have a higher chance to do it, while being safer over all. Limiting is a good idea just I would like to see it grow. |
Author: | Cothordin [ Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:27 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Feedback: Action limits |
Redlaw wrote: I would base it off level, higher level you are stronger and more stuff you should have. Hacking and raiding in my eyes should be limited to once ever ten of there levels (or make it 1 + 1 every ten levels). This would mean that such actions to a player are limited but higher you go better prepped to stopping them you need to be. So if I am level 50 I can be raided or hacked 5 (or 6) times in 24 hours, if I am level 200 that is 20 times (or 21). Growth might seem slow, but it also means lower level players that could have a higher chance to do it, while being safer over all. Limiting is a good idea just I would like to see it grow. /concurX9001 |
Author: | Mox [ Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:55 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Feedback: Action limits |
Or just add another timer, and make it so they can only be hacked once every 25 minutes. So if a single person is constantly hacking some one, the timers won't conflict, but it prevents a massive hack fest. (I suppose you could even go lower with it, like every 20 minutes.) |
Author: | Nocifer Deathblade [ Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:03 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Feedback: Action limits |
Mox wrote: Or just add another timer, and make it so they can only be hacked once every 25 minutes. So if a single person is constantly hacking some one, the timers won't conflict, but it prevents a massive hack fest. (I suppose you could even go lower with it, like every 20 minutes.) Yeah, sounds like good solution. It will reduce legion to one single "individual" every 25 min to hack.. I like this one.. Basically, whoever hacks first when 25 min timer expires gets it. ![]() |
Author: | Barracuda [ Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:35 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Feedback: Action limits |
Timer... this should protect those who do nothing. Perhaps: KEY *Protection for non-aggressive players* @Aggressive players@ *For players that have no record of aggression against any players for 12 hours,* *Max hacked/raided 12x per 12 hours* *Max killed 2 times per 12 hours* @ Should the player resort to hack/raid/attack others, automatically @ Max hack/raided upped to 6x per hour (counter reseted to 0 upon any aggression) @ Max disable 12 time per 12 hours (counter reseted to 0 upon any aggression) CASES: [CASE1]For timer reseting: Player 1 kills Player 2 2x in 1 hour and hack/raid 12x in the same hour (player 2 will have protection *marked with asterisks on top*, so invulnerable to attacks/hack/raid for 12 hours) Player 2 decides to kill Player 1. Attacks. Player 2 loses protection, becoming effect @ so Player 1 can kill Player 2 12x instead [CASE2] Player 1 and 2 continuously trade disables/hacks/raids. Their counters keep resetting to zero. So it leads to infinite disables/raid/hacks per hour. That way 'actual continuous PvP' ain't destroyed in the process as they can still drag such a battle to last a long time without the timers affecting them. NOTE: Means aggressive players will have less protection for 12 hours after any aggression. Perhaps put a timer on Ship tab which only the player can see as a tool-tip on Size Class: "Aggressive mode: 12 hours remaining" Also, put a "Passive" mode in ship tab. When it is ticked, the player cannot do anything aggressive, thus effect @ @ won't be triggered accidentally. This change should not affect aggressors too much as the current limit is infinite anyway. Only the victims be affected the most. Thoughts? |
Author: | Cothordin [ Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:41 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Feedback: Action limits |
Barracuda wrote: Timer... this should protect those who do nothing. Perhaps: KEY *Protection for non-aggressive players* @Aggressive players@ *For players that have no record of aggression against any players for 12 hours,* *Max hacked/raided 12x per 12 hours* *Max killed 2 times per 12 hours* @ Should the player resort to hack/raid/attack others, automatically @ Max hack/raided upped to 6x per hour (counter reseted to 0 upon any aggression) @ Max disable 12 time per 12 hours (counter reseted to 0 upon any aggression) CASES: [CASE1]For timer reseting: Player 1 kills Player 2 2x in 1 hour and hack/raid 12x in the same hour (player 2 will have protection *marked with asterisks on top*, so invulnerable to attacks/hack/raid for 12 hours) Player 2 decides to kill Player 1. Attacks. Player 2 loses protection, becoming effect @ so Player 1 can kill Player 2 12x instead [CASE2] Player 1 and 2 continuously trade disables/hacks/raids. Their counters keep resetting to zero. So it leads to infinite disables/raid/hacks per hour. That way 'actual continuous PvP' ain't destroyed in the process as they can still drag such a battle to last a long time without the timers affecting them. NOTE: Means aggressive players will have less protection for 12 hours after any aggression. Perhaps put a timer on Ship tab which only the player can see as a tool-tip on Size Class: "Aggressive mode: 12 hours remaining" Also, put a "Passive" mode in ship tab. When it is ticked, the player cannot do anything aggressive, thus effect @ @ won't be triggered accidentally. This change should not affect aggressors too much as the current limit is infinite anyway. Only the victims be affected the most. Thoughts? Best idea yet IMO |
Author: | tk3 [ Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:02 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Feedback: Action limits |
+1 to barracuda's idea |
Author: | QCubed [ Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:21 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Feedback: Action limits |
I think Barracuda's Idea is pretty darn good. A player who is inactive will not be repairing anyway, so it does not affect normal edge mechanics in that sense. One Major Caveat I see: A player or legion as a whole could manipulate this mechanic by intentionally disabling their ship a couple times to become invincible to regular aggressors, and park their ships in orbit around planets to make them effectively invulnerable to attack or invasion. as long as this exploit is resolved I think it's a good system. One other issue, these users may need to hack or raid or invade or attack in the random battle arena to open missions or get rewards from the game, and will be penalized by being unable to do so without opening themselves back up to attack. Which woudl easily be a form of harassment as good as or even better than the existing problem =/ Here is one other thought which might be good i tandem or on it's own and will certainly help curb the issue: When you send a galaxy legion alert to attack a ship right now every member of your legion can attack that ship for 12 hours. This only costs 5 energy Why Not Create Teirs for 'Assistance' with different energy cost Depending on how many players may assist you? In the system I propose, You would still alert 100% of your legion, the length woudl still be 12 hours, BUT, after a certain number of people have attacked no new members can attack the ship in question based off your alert, members how have already attacked may continue to do so. In other words you would have a certain number of slots for allies to be allowed to attack the person in your announcement which woudl be filled on a first come first served basis. Then wars woudl be limited between how much energy you were willing to spend to attack someone, and since you can still only send 1 alert per 12 hours you woudl have to pit risk vs reward on making an alert. To make it harder to really over-do attacks on a single player's ship I think there should be a limited number of choices for how many slots to purchase, and that the Ratio of slots for energy woudl become worse the more slots you needed. You could call this action "form a coalition against Player X" For instance For 2 Slots Pay 5 Energy For 8 Slots Pay 25 Energy For 16 Slots Pay 60 Energy For 24 Slots Pay 120 Energy For 40 slots Pay 240 Energy Additionally, if one of those people attacks and 'loses' and then stops attacking on your behalf they don;t use up a slot, or could drop off after an hour. if all slots are used in the attack group then either members could click the alert and attack woudl be grayed out (Preferred), or the alert could disappear from their News page unless a slot becomes free again. As with the previous system no one could attack based off the alert after 12 hours. I think this might be the better choice because it allows the users to stay in the pool for random battle encounters, and they don;t have to worry that they need to do some hacking or battling in the random arena to open up missions and it will make them MORE vulnerable to a "ganking". ~Q |
Author: | Mox [ Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:01 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Feedback: Action limits |
Barracuda wrote: Timer... this should protect those who do nothing. Perhaps: KEY *Protection for non-aggressive players* @Aggressive players@ *For players that have no record of aggression against any players for 12 hours,* *Max hacked/raided 12x per 12 hours* *Max killed 2 times per 12 hours* @ Should the player resort to hack/raid/attack others, automatically @ Max hack/raided upped to 6x per hour (counter reseted to 0 upon any aggression) @ Max disable 12 time per 12 hours (counter reseted to 0 upon any aggression) CASES: [CASE1]For timer reseting: Player 1 kills Player 2 2x in 1 hour and hack/raid 12x in the same hour (player 2 will have protection *marked with asterisks on top*, so invulnerable to attacks/hack/raid for 12 hours) Player 2 decides to kill Player 1. Attacks. Player 2 loses protection, becoming effect @ so Player 1 can kill Player 2 12x instead [CASE2] Player 1 and 2 continuously trade disables/hacks/raids. Their counters keep resetting to zero. So it leads to infinite disables/raid/hacks per hour. That way 'actual continuous PvP' ain't destroyed in the process as they can still drag such a battle to last a long time without the timers affecting them. NOTE: Means aggressive players will have less protection for 12 hours after any aggression. Perhaps put a timer on Ship tab which only the player can see as a tool-tip on Size Class: "Aggressive mode: 12 hours remaining" Also, put a "Passive" mode in ship tab. When it is ticked, the player cannot do anything aggressive, thus effect @ @ won't be triggered accidentally. This change should not affect aggressors too much as the current limit is infinite anyway. Only the victims be affected the most. Thoughts? This has a ton of holes in it, not to mention too many ways to exploit it. Since I assume you are talking about total hacks and attacks, since the post is about people ganging up on other people, not one on one battles, here are a few holes and exploits below. Exploit 1) Player 1 kills Player 2 and has Player 3, a non legion'd friend, hack him 12 times and lock him down for 12 hours. Creating immunities for himself. With your aggression model, he could keep on doing this. Exploit 2) If the cap is per person, and not total, it still doesn't fix the issue of being ganged up, and in fact can make it even worse, because the timer stops players from doing a ton of hacks attacks all at once, but your system if based on the individual would allow all of the people in the alerted legion to hack 12 times right away. Exploit 3) Assuming the caps are global: player 1 hacks player 3, player 3 alerts player 2 + 20 others, and they lock him down. Now Player 1 doesn't dare do anything for fear of opening him or herself up to even more hits. This doesn't make the situation better, but worse. Now what may have started out as an innocent volley of attacks and/or hacks, is going to force the player to stop playing or continue to get bombarded. I can think of more ways to exploit, but these are the main ones. In my experience if you try to over complicate something and have too many rules, it leads to more ways to exploit the situation. While the idea has merit, it is very rough and in it's current condition too riddled with ways to take advantage. Unless I'm completely misunderstanding the idea. To compensate for your "do nothing" The system could change so that a person that is hacking, can hack every 15 minutes, but the person getting hacked can only get hacked once every 25-30 minutes. As far as I am concerned, attacking doesn't need to be changed. If you want to be left alone for a little while, just don't fix the ship. If that isn't enough, then I suppose you could put a hard cap on how many times you can be killed in a day and then it activates a protection preventing the person from attacking or being attacked for 24 hours. (The person can disable this if they choose though.) |
Author: | Mox [ Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:09 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Feedback: Action limits |
Heh, cubed already addressed some of the issues I had. One other thing I just remembered, a few months ago I recommended and artifact for just these situations. A ship flux that would drop them from people's targeting list. It would just change their name to anonymous, with no tag affiliation. Also it could drop some one from the attack list for a few hours. A get out of jail free card if you will. (Or maybe it is just an activated ability, that can only be used once in a 24 hour period.) If they attack again, or if they are on the top attackers list, or other ways to get targeted (such as through a planet the player is guarding) then all bets are off. |
Author: | webguydan [ Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:34 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Feedback: Action limits |
The topic is hacks/raids, not disable. |
Author: | Barracuda [ Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:40 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Feedback: Action limits |
My bad ![]() In that case, if possible: Non-aggressive players max be hacked/raided 12 times in 12 hours. (no form of aggression in the past 12 hours) Aggressive = infinite like currently (timer starts at 12 hrs) But then again, people tend to complain more about multiple disables than hacks/raids which usually leads to them quitting the game... |
Author: | furlfoot2 [ Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:57 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Feedback: Action limits |
Non-aggressors -- no hacking/raiding or even firing a shot on another player should only be allowed to be hacked or raided 5x per day (total not per person) (ship only for the raiding -- for planets raiding should be allowed like normal or just count each attacker on a planet as 1 raid (banning multiple accounts that find a loophole to provide planet raid immunity)). Aggressors -- hacked, raided or attacked a PC in the last 24 hours should be allowed to be hacked or raided 5x minimum by the person they hacked, raided or attacked (within 24 hours of the assault). Also, they should be subject to 2 raids or hacks by 'any' other player until the 24 hour non-aggression period passes. 12 times per 12 hour period is what barra suggested. This is way too much for a non-aggressor, but may work for aggressors but it should maybe be 5 raids for each raid the aggressor does. If you raid 20 times, then you are subject to 100 raids back at ya. |
Author: | hunter [ Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:08 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Feedback: Action limits |
Barracuda wrote: Timer... this should protect those who do nothing. Perhaps: KEY *Protection for non-aggressive players* @Aggressive players@ *For players that have no record of aggression against any players for 12 hours,* *Max hacked/raided 12x per 12 hours* *Max killed 2 times per 12 hours* @ Should the player resort to hack/raid/attack others, automatically @ Max hack/raided upped to 6x per hour (counter reseted to 0 upon any aggression) @ Max disable 12 time per 12 hours (counter reseted to 0 upon any aggression) CASES: [CASE1]For timer reseting: Player 1 kills Player 2 2x in 1 hour and hack/raid 12x in the same hour (player 2 will have protection *marked with asterisks on top*, so invulnerable to attacks/hack/raid for 12 hours) Player 2 decides to kill Player 1. Attacks. Player 2 loses protection, becoming effect @ so Player 1 can kill Player 2 12x instead [CASE2] Player 1 and 2 continuously trade disables/hacks/raids. Their counters keep resetting to zero. So it leads to infinite disables/raid/hacks per hour. That way 'actual continuous PvP' ain't destroyed in the process as they can still drag such a battle to last a long time without the timers affecting them. NOTE: Means aggressive players will have less protection for 12 hours after any aggression. Perhaps put a timer on Ship tab which only the player can see as a tool-tip on Size Class: "Aggressive mode: 12 hours remaining" Also, put a "Passive" mode in ship tab. When it is ticked, the player cannot do anything aggressive, thus effect @ @ won't be triggered accidentally. This change should not affect aggressors too much as the current limit is infinite anyway. Only the victims be affected the most. Thoughts? this is a rather good idea. this would protect from swarming fairly well. i really love the idea that PvP players may continue to fight it out as long as they like. additionally, i would like to see a log of hostile actions against that player in the last hour. if that log is packed, and the guy only hacked RP, i will not attack. there is currently no way to tell who is, or has been attacking. |
Author: | Chalit [ Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:47 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Feedback: Action limits |
my two cents on this: 1 hack/raid every 20 min... If you get hacked/raided you are locked down for 20 min from being hacked/raided because of "stepped up security". If you want to allow hacks/raids during this time just say they have a 99.99% chance of critical failure to hack/raid the person. If you hack/raid while you have "stepped up security" you loose the hack/raid "immunity" for the remaining duration with a debuff of "Overconfident Security" and can be hack/raided. you can regain the "stepped up security" when the debuff vanishes and you get hacked/raided again. Disables *shrug* i know its not the topic but i don't know how you could limit them other than saying that the person that just got disabled is "immune" to attacks because (insert cheesy reason here) for the next 30 - 60 min, unless they attack during that time. NPC's can not trip the immunity(of course). hunter wrote: additionally, i would like to see a log of hostile actions against that player in the last hour. if that log is packed, and the guy only hacked RP, i will not attack. there is currently no way to tell who is, or has been attacking. Agreed, but i would just like a revenge list so I could attack any of the last 20 people that attacked me. |
Author: | Nocifer Deathblade [ Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:35 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Feedback: Action limits |
While this discussion is going with new ideas, please don't forget the serious abuse of multi-account usage. If you see any new ideas that enhances the power of multi-account then I give a big two thumbs down.. Conway player got about 12 multi-accounts under his control and still growing.. We, DOO, players are constantly destroying him as to speak. If any new ideas nerf our ability to destroy multi-account players and strengthen their power to hurt us then I wouldn't support the idea... |
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