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 Anti Trap, Anti Artifact modules/artifacts. 
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Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:44 pm
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Traps and containment missiles are a necessary part of combat, but it is frustrating being completely unable to prevent them each time.

I offer two suggestions, that could be easily modified as either a single use artifact or module form.
Both use similar mechanisms.

Primarily, each would ignore the first trap/artifact to work against your ship once per time period. Alternatively, they could grant a % chance to avoid the trap. This could either expend the trap, or simply avoid triggering it, allowing you to damage a bit more before it sets off.

For example, if you attack someone, inevitably it is pointless unless they are offline, or broke, due to halcyon traps. Legion mates can be used to limit this, but combat is often pointless.

Pop a single use artifact, and the next encountered trap is ignored or resisted. This could be avoiding 400 damage, meaning halcyon still stops you, or it could be a halcyon, allowing you to continue your attack, albeit it at 10% when you hit the inevitable virus trap.

If this is too powerful, at least half the damage/duration. Stockpiles of traps vanish twice as quickly, and alternate methods such as calming amplifiers become more important.

Limit how often this can be done, such as to once an hour, and ships can still defend themselves safely, but a determined single attacker at least has a chance to attack.

A defensive module works best for the anti-artifact module. Operating either as a fixed amount, such as 1 artifact per half hour, or a percentage chance of resisting, They can not stop a determined attacker, but give a resistance to status damage.

Ideally, i prefer a % chance, say 35-50%, to protect each positive effect from a containment missile.
Multiple missiles can therefore still remove all your buffs, but no longer can 8 buffs be removed by one missile!

Look forward to feedback.

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Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:26 am
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A few other ideas:
This could be taken to a whole new level, with ECM and Counter ECM.

This could be implemented as modules, or as a new tech tree. (Edit: Or even added as a product of scan vs cloak, giving them more purpose)

Research ability, either passive, or as new modules/built artifacts that increase your chance to get past traps, and decrease other peoples chances to get past yours.

I realize this benefits large players more than small, but so long as the chance never exceeds a 30-40% improvement in both directions, there will always be the ability for the small to kill the big, as it should be.

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Last edited by Glorfygolgoth on Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:35 am
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Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:48 am
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theres automatically a chance to avoid any trap set on an enemy ship. thats why when you get attacked all your traps dont deploy aitomatically. its also why if you can 2 shot an enemy only one of their traps activate. as for containment missiles, theyre ment to remove buffs on an enemy player. why would we want these to have a chance of not working? i personally could care less if i get hit by one, because if your not strong enough to kill someone without buffs then you shouldnt kill them. however, i often have people attack me that buff their ship with every artifact i know of that helps, and debuff me with 8 or 9 artifacts. if my missile missed them after they fired all these artifacts on me i would be severely disappointed.

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Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:44 am
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Yes, there is a chance to avoid it, but as that chance grows smaller the more damage they take, its still inevitable that you hit it. Your example of two shotting a player only helps if you outpower your foe by an incredible amount.

I apologize if i don't understand huge level combat, but i don't want the basis of this idea to be "how it works when a rank 400+ hits a rank 50"

Even if that is the case, this would be supported by my second post, as your higher ecm and counter-ecm would allow you to avoid such a weak ships defences, maintaining parity.

Second, you mention that large groups of people attack you, and it would be disappointing to have your missile not retaliate effectively against them. In this scenario, these 8-9 players would have had to expend more resources to apply these artifacts against you in the first place, due to your (presumably) superior ecm. If this is the case, YOUR containment missile would be considerably more effective against them, with your superior technology winning the day.

As you also mention that you shouldn't be attacking if your not able to kill them regardless of buffs, even if it failed it should not matter.

Im sorry if i sound aggressive, i just want more mechanical feedback and ideas, not simply personal feelings based on overwhelming ship strength vs all opponents.

Edit: I apologize, i misread your post slightly. It was players attacking with 8-9 artifacts, not 8-9 players. However, the point still remains the same with the currently proposed mechanics.

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Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:58 am
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What about if instead of it being an innate ability, or tech tree, there's an artifact which removes trap effects, separate from the containment missile?

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Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:34 am
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Glorfygolgoth wrote:
Yes, there is a chance to avoid it, but as that chance grows smaller the more damage they take, its still inevitable that you hit it. Your example of two shotting a player only helps if you outpower your foe by an incredible amount.

I apologize if i don't understand huge level combat, but i don't want the basis of this idea to be "how it works when a rank 400+ hits a rank 50"


this dosnt work with the deck cap. sadly, they have to have a bigger ship or slightly smaller to effectively 2-4 shot them. Traps are what buys me time when im dealing with an angry player or legion. if these didnt work then i would be screwed. if you truely want to bypass a ships traps then as soon as you hit a trap, wait for the 30-60 minutes it takes for it to wear off and then keep going at em. I assume you are talking about KV and halc traps, because those are the ones PvPers whine about the most. While i would like to be able to bypass a ships traps, i would not want that effect to be used on me. Unless they change the game to where you can set multiple of each kind of trap (like 3 or 4 halc traps, 6 KV traps, a few mines) then i must say i disapprove of this idea.

The same goes with the artifacts. i would not like artifacts to miss because they cost energy to deploy. while i may not use them, they are the life-blood of other players. unless the ap cost of these artifacts was reduced, or they came in pairs when you recieve them from the draw, AND the energy requirement was removed, i would have to disapprove of this idea too.

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Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:48 am
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The problem is we dont want to make traps ineffective.. they serve a very useful purpose. What i was proposing was that, with effort, a specalist can have a reasonable chance to bypass traps or artifacts, countered with the expertise of the person who put the trap or artifact into play.

As it stands, all abilities have a counter, and a way to improve them.

Attack is countered with defence, and both can be researched and upgraded.
Cloak is countered with scan, and both can be researched and upgraded.
Artifacts are... countered with artifacts, and the only important factor is how many you have sitting there, and if you are online when they are put into play. This is the same with traps.

I want a system where artifacts are more dynamic, where your artifacts can function more effectively, and your opponents less effectively, IF you put the decks/research/whatever into it.

Hell, even if it just gets tied into scan/cloak for success, at least the scan items actually gain a use for something other than planetscan runs! Continuum beacons might actually be worth using, to give your artifacts an edge over your opponents cloaking countermeasures.
This method would have a stronger impact on those under rank 250, where scan/cloak has to be chosen instead of weaponry... a science specialist would have more effective artifacts, wheras a weaponsmaster would not need them as much.

Currently we mainly have big ship vs little ship, Hacker vs Combatent, Fast level vs Slow Level as our primary builds, with all ships bluring together at high levels. This would add a new element, where each person can decide if extra artifact effectiveness is worth the time they could be placing in other build styles. For the average player, all would remain even, if different. For those who chose to specialize, or completely neglect artifact counter measures, they can work towards a unique style compared to their peers.

High level ships would be more even, this is true. However, that is true of all current maxed tech ships, where everyone has everything already. They would also gain the "artifact advantage" when using scan buffs, if that is the system used, so a prepared player has more success. That was why i was more strongly leaning towards a tech tree system, to add yet another unique ship build style. Honestly, i think it makes sense that incredibly powerful ships can generally overwhelm the artifacts of low level players, although it should always be either partly effective or have a chance of defense.

Xwing vs the death star should be obvious, but there is always the occasional skywalker to play havoc on the system.

As you can tell, im still developing the system with each post i make, so please continue to post comments.

EDIT: Thanks for taking this topic seriously Vekno, and i understand what you mean. My intention was that equally researched players would have artifacts function much as they do now, with perhaps a 15% base chance of ECM. Sometimes you should just be able to dodge a Kurenite missile, even if its rare. Or requires an Infinite Probability Drive. However, a player who greatly focus upon, or greatly neglected, their ECM would experience a different style of play.

As with all things, i think the usefulness of this would come down to balance between %, and if people would want to have a more dynamic artifact usage. If it was preferred that artifacts remain simple, always functioning tools as they are now, then i will sadly shelve the idea. Can you offer any suggestions to improve this idea, or do you just feel that they would not suit GL? For example, is there any reason that being able to stack traps would not be helpful, or is that overkill vs what might be a 15% chance for them not to function?

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Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:53 am
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:50 pm
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Hansolocal wrote:
What about if instead of it being an innate ability, or tech tree, there's an artifact which removes trap effects, separate from the containment missile?



I have proposed a similar idea not long ago, Anti-Trap missile. Nobody liked the idea.

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