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 Minimum Decks for Crew Support 
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umbongo wrote:
Chade wrote:
[
And that is already accounted for in Attack (Attack = Amount of Damage done & Ability to HIT the ship, Targeting computers etc, the higher the attack, the more accurate and easier to hit the little ships)

Your right, in a perfect system we would have 2 stats, Attack and Damage, here the are combined into 1, Attack. But at the same time Defense accounts for damage reduction (dampener modules) and Dodge (Thrusters). Dodge makes a ship harder to hit. These things are already accounted for without Limiting the Damage a weapon can do based upon its targets size.

IF anything a small, very small % percent bonus to defense could be added to ships based on their size, either way, putting a cap damage done based on size is backwards, you have to admit that.


Only it isn't accounted for is it. Under no definition of Attack in Galaxy Legion can I find a claim that it increases your ability to hit an opponent. No, no, no... the higher the attack simply the more power put out by the guns, nothing about accuracy in there (unless you want Dan to introduce a new set of ship parameters that increases your ships ability to target/avoid being targeted.

I dont particularly view it as backwards... different yes, interesting yes, backwards no. There are so many ways you can explain the SSB (non-) issue that most of the arguments just come across as "I don't like this ship set up, it should be removed"


Eh, years and years of gaming got the better of me there, no your correct it does not 'specifically' say that, So, have me there. But it would be safe to assume that since Officers dont actually make a cannon stronger, they are responsible for the targeting aspect of the Attack Stat. So basically every attack hits. But, the argument that smaller ships should take less damage from the exact same gun that a larger ship would take more damage from? absurd.

The biggest argument for SSB is that, its smaller, harder to hit because it can dodge better, but.. Dodge/Maneuvering IS accounted for in the defense Stat, thrusters, so saying that a smaller ship is harder to hit because it can dodge easier, is ALREADY included in the defense stat. Thus Damage should be Attack vs Defense, period, ship size not accounted for.. if ANYTHING smaller ships should take More damage per hit :)

Backwards yes, Different? not in a good way, Interesting? for the love of deep space no, Annoying? yes, when you hit a cocky loud mouth arrogant s.o.b. that is 800 ranks lower than you, and you hit them for 300 damage when your attack is more than 10x their defense? and you should blow their ship into little tiny debris floating in space in one shot, yes. I mean at that point, whats the use of increasing your attack, to do more damage, when its going to be limited by the size of someone elses ship... Is it one of the reasons that new Gamers coming to the game quit? I have no doubt about that. Is it the reason I despise and normally avoid pvp here if I can? yes.. and sadly, i've loved pvp in other games...

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Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:20 pm
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Chade wrote:
Eh, years and years of gaming got the better of me there, no your correct it does not 'specifically' say that, So, have me there. But it would be safe to assume that since Officers dont actually make a cannon stronger, they are responsible for the targeting aspect of the Attack Stat. So basically every attack hits. But, the argument that smaller ships should take less damage from the exact same gun that a larger ship would take more damage from? absurd. Assumption is the mother of all cock ups... Never assume, but work on the facts as they are presented. Tac Officers increase power, the game mentions nothing about them being good at aiming. I am picturing them as Stormtroopers/James Bond villain henchmen... Powerful but couldn't hit a barn door with a banjo

The biggest argument for SSB is that, its smaller, harder to hit because it can dodge better, but.. Dodge/Maneuvering IS accounted for in the defense Stat, thrusters, so saying that a smaller ship is harder to hit because it can dodge easier, is ALREADY included in the defense stat. Thus Damage should be Attack vs Defense, period, ship size not accounted for.. if ANYTHING smaller ships should take More damage per hit :) And here is where the aforementioned DDBS comes into place. Picture each ship as a simple 2d square. An LSB, for example, is a 10X10 square, whilst an SSB may be a 4x4 square grid. Durtanium Brackets take up a single square. SSBs, being much smaller would build up a much thicker layer of Durtanium Brackets, therefore requiring much more effort to blast through and damage the ship. Using rough numbers of 160 Durt Brackets- An SSB square would end up as a 4x4x10 3D cube, whereas those same 160 Brackets on an LSB would only produce a 10x10x 1.6 3D cube...


To sum up my mini ramble about Durtanium Density- Put thick layer of stuff between your delicate bits and big bang bang = much harder to damage those delicate bits and longer to wear through the thick layer

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Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:32 pm
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umbongo wrote:
Chade wrote:
Eh, years and years of gaming got the better of me there, no your correct it does not 'specifically' say that, So, have me there. But it would be safe to assume that since Officers dont actually make a cannon stronger, they are responsible for the targeting aspect of the Attack Stat. So basically every attack hits. But, the argument that smaller ships should take less damage from the exact same gun that a larger ship would take more damage from? absurd. Assumption is the mother of all cock ups... Never assume, but work on the facts as they are presented. Tac Officers increase power, the game mentions nothing about them being good at aiming. I am picturing them as Stormtroopers/James Bond villain henchmen... Powerful but couldn't hit a barn door with a banjo

The biggest argument for SSB is that, its smaller, harder to hit because it can dodge better, but.. Dodge/Maneuvering IS accounted for in the defense Stat, thrusters, so saying that a smaller ship is harder to hit because it can dodge easier, is ALREADY included in the defense stat. Thus Damage should be Attack vs Defense, period, ship size not accounted for.. if ANYTHING smaller ships should take More damage per hit :) And here is where the aforementioned DDBS comes into place. Picture each ship as a simple 2d square. An LSB, for example, is a 10X10 square, whilst an SSB may be a 4x4 square grid. Durtanium Brackets take up a single square. SSBs, being much smaller would build up a much thicker layer of Durtanium Brackets, therefore requiring much more effort to blast through and damage the ship. Using rough numbers of 160 Durt Brackets- An SSB square would end up as a 4x4x10 3D cube, whereas those same 160 Brackets on an LSB would only produce a 10x10x 1.6 3D cube...


To sum up my mini ramble about Durtanium Density- Put thick layer of stuff between your delicate bits and big bang bang = much harder to damage those delicate bits and longer to wear through the thick layer


Brackets add to Hull, Hull does not reduce damage but reflects how much damage a ship can take before it is obliterated, and we have a stat called Hull. That does not reflect any limitations on how much damage my cannons can do, just how many shots or damage from my cannons tha tyour ship can take, period, Regardless of size of the ship.

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Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:54 pm
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Chade wrote:

Brackets add to Hull, Hull does not reduce damage but reflects how much damage a ship can take before it is obliterated, and we have a stat called Hull. That does not reflect any limitations on how much damage my cannons can do, just how many shots or damage from my cannons tha tyour ship can take, period, Regardless of size of the ship.

The thicker the hull.. the more work you need to do to do any real damage. Kinda missed the point of my post but oh well.

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Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:56 pm
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umbongo wrote:
Chade wrote:

Brackets add to Hull, Hull does not reduce damage but reflects how much damage a ship can take before it is obliterated, and we have a stat called Hull. That does not reflect any limitations on how much damage my cannons can do, just how many shots or damage from my cannons tha tyour ship can take, period, Regardless of size of the ship.

The thicker the hull.. the more work you need to do to do any real damage. Kinda missed the point of my post but oh well.


And I think you might have missed mine. We have a stat called hull, tells us how much hull the ship has (Density included). Cannons do X amount of damage to a hull, that is reduced from the Total Hull, kind of the same as hit points in an MMO. Not how much damage my ships weapons can do per hit.

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Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:10 pm
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Chade wrote:
umbongo wrote:
Chade wrote:

Brackets add to Hull, Hull does not reduce damage but reflects how much damage a ship can take before it is obliterated, and we have a stat called Hull. That does not reflect any limitations on how much damage my cannons can do, just how many shots or damage from my cannons tha tyour ship can take, period, Regardless of size of the ship.

The thicker the hull.. the more work you need to do to do any real damage. Kinda missed the point of my post but oh well.


And I think you might have missed mine. We have a stat called hull, tells us how much hull the ship has (Density included). Cannons do X amount of damage to a hull, that is reduced from the Total Hull, kind of the same as hit points in an MMO. Not how much damage my ships weapons can do per hit.

I think we are looking at the same issue from different angles. My view takes into account why I take low damage, yours is looking at why you feel you don't do enough damage.

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I did some naughty things, and now they have put me in the Royal Asylum, based in Chesterton

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Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:13 pm
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umbongo wrote:
I think we are looking at the same issue from different angles. My view takes into account why I take low damage, yours is looking at why you feel you don't do enough damage.


I'm looking at as the size of your ship should not Limit / Reduce the amount of damage that my cannons/attack does. Defense and defense alone should do that, then the damage my cannons do with each attack should reduce your shields / hull at whatever rate that is.

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Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:04 pm
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Remember what tech level we are at.

Attack can be thought of as "How much energy and how many calculators do I have to throw through the multi-dimensions at my enemy"
Defence can be thought of as "How much energy and how many calculators do I have to move my ship through multi-dimensions to avoid above energy"

Remember, our ships literally use the multiverse to dodge. The smaller your ship, the less calculations per dodge are needed. The more TO's, the better you can tune in your attack on the correct dimension to hit them. Large ships require more defence, as they have more ship to dimension-shunt. Destroying ships is about hitting them through the dimensions, then wearing down dutranium layers.

Small ships move faster through dimensions (defence) and have comparativly thicker hull (density of durt brackets)

This is why most people consider scan and cloak a necessary addition - the intent being a large ship counters its size with huge banks of jamming technology, making it harder for small ships without good scanners to pierce the dimensions to hit them. And of course, a small ship does not have jammers, and has to dodge everything while the large ships scanners can target it.

Currently they do - but only in lame, weak critical hits. Make those hits more noticable, and the balance comes back a lot.

Keep in mind, this only helps even out the ssb/lsb problem, not all the other pvp problems. We have worked out other great suggestions for those....

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