Dan
I went to a thread via like from a forum member you know well. I started to reply and got caught up in real life, finished writing my reply and went to post it. to my shock it was deleted. Why are whole threads being deleted instead of the offending post? For that matter, unless they are totally egregious why are they being deleted at all? I really hope you deleted it, but somehow I feel I will believe it was someone else in my gut. I do know that if things dont change here and in the game itself, I have spent my last dollar! Im sure my 40 dollars is a drop in the bucket, but im not alone, and pretty soon a drop can become a whole deluge. I will quote Phillip J. Fry "fix it fix it fix it, fix it fix it fix it"

i know its out of context now but im still posting my reply to that now dead thread

I see that nothing stops you Coth. I know your not against groups...just ours. It really bothered you and others that our numbers and and fighting/hacking ability kept you and yours in check. As big and bad as you guys were we could take you out if given the right provocation and it bothers you to this day even in the new alert system era, a system which BTW is killing the game. You are the pissy one.

I want to say this. This game is set up so that players can kill, hack, raid other planers and conquer their planets. This is not Sim City or a game where you simply empire build. This game has PVP as part of it, in fact a big part. Just look at how many different kinds of offensive actions you can take. Look at artifacts. There are plenty of ones that are intended to win you battles, help you steal research and take planets from other players. The game was designed fighting as a major part of it.

Sure, you can be a lone wolf. just research and build your ship. But the game IS NOT set up that way even to this day. Even non offensive actions promote conflict, eg when you scan for planets you find many enemy ones. If we are not meant to fight and just empire build why is this so? What bothers you, Kaos and others is that we have built a better mouse trap. That we have treated this as a competition and, quite frankly, are better at it then you. Your mad that we somehow broke the system. Well we didnt, we just used the structure of the game to our advantage. I used to play magic the gathering. They had many "Broken" cards, card which when created seemed like just another card. They turned out to be so unbalancing that they became "restricted" to one per deck instead of the usual 4 for competition. Why did this happen over and over with each new set? Because a lot of smart players found either combinations or completely unexpected uses for these cards. So dont whine about it. build your own mouse trap. The argument that you should not have to fight or prepare for PVP is simply foolish, thats what Farmville is for. It not a friendly game, its a game of growth AND competition. In a competition there are winners and loosers.



Dan you probably didnt see people alert sharing in a way that you could quite literally keep someone alerted forever. At first the change was to shorten the length of our log so you couldnt share someone you fought 12 days ago. Now we have no alerts or real contact, and i see play time dying as well as interest. Dan please do something! Although the candy(NPC Drops) is sweet, I have had my fill of NPC's. The new alert system is a disaster. i was in favor of all the changes, now i hate them, and to be honest, if it was not for the time i have invested in the game i would just quit. At this point the only thing keeping me engaged is my involvement in the DOO. Please help make the game fun like it was without throwing out the baby with the bath water.


PS. I'm sorry Kaos but im a little tired of your going on about the DOO as well

A flame war was starting, I said either the thread went back to making posts that were on topic or I would have to delete the thread. A user then made a post that continued the flame war so I did my job and deleted it. Sorry if you wanted to reply.

In most forums that I have joined. Most threads are Locked if things are getting out of hand.

Deletion of threads even the most vulgar of threads should not happen.

Editing, can be done to make it a bit more civilized but DELETION of A complete Thread.. hmm might look like a cover-up

Well sorry Remic I took it when Dan said "I moderate and delete threads as well, though I agree that Coth should be posting less and moderating more." as "Dont participate and delete flame wars before they get out of hand, like I did"(I being Dan).
As for a cover up, I took screenshots of the entire thread so if Dan would like to see for himself he can ask at any time.

"A flame war was starting, I said either the thread went back to making posts that were on topic or I would have to delete the thread. A user then made a post that continued the flame war so I did my job and deleted it. Sorry if you wanted to reply"

Sorry, i'm still confused, were you writing as a user or a moderator?

If as a moderator, then we've been over this already and you should not be taking sides in the discussion.

If you were posting as a user however and felt offended, then to maintain the integrity of your moderator role, you should have raised this to another moderator who would have been the judge whether it was a flame or not.

I am taking issue with you retaining the moderator powers while claiming to be a user.

I also take issue with acting as a moderator to a post that was directed to you as a user. This duality is really confusing, and I would like you to clarify just how the users are supposed to know to whom they are speaking?

The other moderator, Aggross, was not online. Just saying there is a problem with this suggestion. And also, dont turn this into a flame war also Psicore. Im not saying your post will Im just saying any future posts.

Fine then, ill put at the top of my posts whether Im saying something as a mod or a user. But if this is so then I expect that no one will go "A mod should be neutral" when I say something they dont like as a user.

Coth, no offense, but I don't think moderation is working out well for you. It did for a while, but I think it works out better for everyone if you post like the average mortal. With that said, I appreciate the time you've taken to keep a watchful eye on things.

JC, there are plenty of threads for the alert restriction discussion. With the alliance system coming within the next few weeks, I think it can be revisited in a new way and work for everyone.

"Fine then, ill put at the top of my posts whether Im saying something as a mod or a user. But if this is so then I expect that no one will go "A mod should be neutral" when I say something they dont like as a user"

Sorry again, but this will not do, as discussed when the previous issue arose, the roles are mutually exclusive. Your post shows that this issue still remains unresolved.

You are kindly requested to clarify whether you are a user or a moderator in this forum, this clarification will go a long way towards avoiding this unfortunate situation in the future.

Please disregard my above post. Thanks to the forum management for their clarification.

Yeah, I think it's better in the long run and we need unbiased moderators. Moderators actually set the tone of the forum and people look up to moderators as "leaders".

Good move Dan. I'm sorry that it has to turn out to be that way.. I believe that you'll find worthy moderators to fill Coth's shoes especially in the long run..

That certainly will kill any future flames from brewing from those disappointed posters..

Then may I please have my rant In which I verbally demolish everyone whos insulted me during these last few days or do I have to keep pretending that im mature enough not to do something like that?

Also, im going to have to agree with Kaos on that the best mod would be one who dosnt play the game. As well as that I think if the new mod is to be nominated by peers, there should be some limitations on who can vote.

@Robert

I guess our definitions of a flame war is very different apparently. You have been in support of Coth in both of the posts that i have seen deleted, so i know which side of the fence you stand. I also notice that your not addressing the issue, instead your attacking PSI. Why dont you stick to the topic, which BTW is why posts are being deleted.

PSI brings up a valid point, as I to felt that Coth was speaking as a user from the tenor of his responses. So I to would like to know if Coth is a user or a Moderator....To paraphrase Dan..."there mutually exclusive". And flaming...is it not flaming when when the DOO gets attacked? I just see snide comments including the infomous "ahole" and "jerk" comments allowed to pass, but when one of us defends our point of view and attacks the flamer "then" the post warrants deletion. From now on im going to pay a lot more attention to these posts and archive those threads which show the repeated pattern of "flaming" against the DOO.

Lastly i need to say this, i have personal reasons for wanting to get along with the moderator which he is aware of and i really hope that we can work things out instead of butting heads all the time...Sincerly JCWIGGENS

No, not really. We need moderators who play GL so they can UNDERSTAND what posters are all talking about and give advices, etc like you did in the past.. It's just that it takes delicate balance of moderating and playing game. That's all. In so many games that I played, I had seen almost all moderators there who also played games. They found the balance pretty well. Of course, there were also moderators who didn't succeed in doing their job. I also was moderator for shadowknight forum for EQ1 for 4 years and I also played the game and I had no problem with that position. It's just that I had to be unbiased other than being biased toward shadowknight class as supposed to.

But.. I want to say thank you for your great help as moderator so far, Coth.. On the bright side, Coth.. You finally can be an user that you always wanted so far and can bash DOO all you want without compromising your user role.

Well thank you Noci, I must say it was nice back when your minions were accusing me of heinous actions that you were simply surprised that the thread was deleted, Thank you. As for your minions....well......some of them can die in a fire for all I care.

You also have a good point on the mod not being a player, that is something to think about indeed.....

Although I was not yet a participant in the original discussion it again seems that there appears to be a conflict between Coth's role as a mod vs. his right to express his opinion.

Again I will say that Coth has every right to his opinion, that should not be disputed by anyone - however expressing that opinion IN ANY WAY as a moderator unjustly lends weight to his point of view, and yes deleting a thread can be a form of expression as well as a form of preventing others from expressing their opinion.

Regarding the original thread - folks a certain amount of disagreement has to be expected on any forums, it is after all a place for the sharing not only of information, but ideas, including the ideas both for and against groups and their impact on the game. On the other side of the fence we have to see that the forums cannot be allowed to become a place so rude and hostile that it gives the wrong impression of a game we all obviously care about. Some moderation is not only necessary but needed, leading us to the concern that are all "disagreements" or "heated" discussions treated as this one was? If only specific subjects/individuals, or groups are being targeted then there is cause for concern, because it can be seen and in fact is, favoring one side of a issue over another and therefore contrary to the role of a moderator which by definition has to be neutral and impartial. A moderator can not both be moderator and have a active role on the threads as a player under the capacity of management. Actively deleteing threads he or she as the case may be, disagrees with shows lack of professionalism and sportsmanship not to mention lack of respect for other players views.

Please disregard my previous post, it seems to have been handled, that will teach me to grab a sandwich in the middle of a thread

Thank you Cothordin, your services have been invaluable indeed.

Heh, those minions actually have their own feelings and their own minds.. So.. They do feel offended or whatever and fight back..

Anyway, for example.. If anyone ever asked me to be a moderator, It will be a BAD choice.. Know why? It's simply a matter of conflict of interest especially when I am leader of DOO. I would rather to be a biased player who stands for DOO at any cost so being a moderator won't be helpful AT all for GL.. I definitely will fail miserably as moderator..

Ya thats impossible now lol. But I think if were going to nominate a new mod theres going to have to be some rules in place on who can vote.

I think first of all only people with accounts when the voting starts should be able to vote first of all. If not we may have organizations try to implant someone by having their members make accounts just to vote for them. (No DOO im talking about every Org, your not THAT special)

Secondly I think me way need minimum post requirements too, 405 of out 906 forum members have no posts, 207 members have only 1 post, 82 have only 2, 58 have only 3-5, 38 have only 10 or less. This leaves only 106 forum members who have 11+ posts.

So ya I dont think we can nom the next guy the same way we nomed me.