Let's take my build, just as an example.

At rank 122, I'm about to start research on Nulls. This would send my upkeep sky high if I choose to install them. As such, this upgrade would require me to change to builder.

Changing to builder will lose me about 1.4k hull due to losing fixer. I will stay Konqul.

The Null Ray upgrade would be +10% overall attack (rounded for simplicity).
Losing fixer is -23% hull. (Credit to Tree)

So losing fixer to upgrade to Null Rays would be extremely counterproductive, leaving me with a weaker ship AND a higher upkeep.

If, instead of Nulls, I chose to research Fermionic, I would still end up needing builder.
Fermionic plating offers 885 Hull, compared to Deep Core Neutronium which gives 695 Hull.

Current total with Fixer and DCN: 5818
Total with Fermionic and builder: 5425

And I would still end up with a higher upkeep.

Not sure how well this applies to higher ranks, but seriously. Downgrade your hull and switch to fixer.

losing fixer you lose 23% of your current hull, not sure if that helps change your mind.

just being a math nazi...
your hull is say 10000 before fixer, fixer bumps you to 10000*1.3=13000
13000*0.77=10010
aka 23%

122 your cost of modules probably isn't worth the builder....

We don't know your mods you run other than weapons and hull.

To upgrade weapons, hull or energy (soon) I would need builder right now. Defence I could probably get away with.



Touche, but 23%>10% still.

You forget the real reason for switching to builder... repair!

Around my rank(200) pvp is starting to cost(daily) a lot more than my current upkeep.

Ya, but, in that example at any rate, you get a stronger ship (less repairs) for less upkeep.

im not a hyper pvp build anymore since ive had the four dom3's and 3 proteans since level 100, but if its upkeep your worried about you could downgrade to heavy singularities ( unless you are using 8 heavy anti's ) use 8 of those, that will save you tons on upkeep, then start pouring rank/ arti/ reward points into tactical officers to mitigate the loss of attack power.

Saved me tons of money, since then my upkeep hasnt broken 30 mil and im vygoid spy.

I can't agree with you on this... my current 133M upkeep is fine, but it's upgrading any further that would break it.

An upkeep for 30 mil at 120+ would indicate a crappy ship. I have more than that on hull alone, and more than double that on weapons... just saying.

as stated im not hyper pvp anymore, can be if i need to be, but at this juncture im just clearing through missions that i want done, so theres no need for me to pay the money. Reason why my upkeep is so small is that the majority of what I have installed is PVP/NPC/Mission modules, there are only 4 researchable things on my ship. 2 heavy singularities, and 2 phase shift mark 3's

Take a small break from PvP, find yourself a couple nice Very Large Toxics and farm a few Blade Harvesters. Problem solved.

Not exactly.. with the floating dmg i take around 130-150 dmg even when im fighting a lot weaker ships.. when im doing pvp i kill around 35-40 ships a day which makes my daily repair around 500M. Tomorrow im going from 5 H. Anti-protons to 6-7-8 H. Nulls.. so i will definitely switch to builder and save around 500M-1B a day.

let's simplify the whole builder vs fixer thing like this.................


fixer helps out the legion with an additional bonus to base hull and base repairs in times of crisis...
builder...... doesn't help

Go fixer if you can...

Watch your daily profit (i usually look at my remaining credit balance just after upkeep hits)... if you are in trouble (your credit income isn't enough to cover your daily usage, thus causing your daily balance to creep toward 0) try to get more mining as quickly as possible... if you are in serious trouble (too much upkeep gained too quickly) switch to builder ONLY LONG ENOUGH to boost mining to a point where you can go back to fixer.... remember... as a builder you are NOT helping your legion's base...

now i know only certain races can even be fixer... and sometimes you need to switch to a non-fixer race (like taltherian) for certain abilities... but there are way too many players out there playing as a builder in a non-ability race... people end up relying on the decreased upkeep cost, and then they're stuck in a rut similar to sillixx players...... you think fixing sillixx-dependency is hard.... try fixing a builder-dependency...

Long story short: DON'T GET YOURSELF STUCK IN RUTS... IT WILL LIMIT WHAT YOU CAN DO IN THIS GAME

I was going to say something similar, but Darth has put it so succinctly that I have nothing to add. Best advice I've seen in the entire thread, although I suspect StrmAvenger may not have much researched scan. If I'm wrong, it's even better advice.

My case Builder is going to help my legion base.. I'm probably going to be the one building the updated mods. Builder allows me to stash the extra 5 bill per mod to upgrade.

Look at where I noted on Null Rays. It's not worth it to lose fixer for them. -23% hull for 10% or so attack. It varies ship to ship, but do the math... your probably not going to get anywhere by the upgrade, except increased upkeep.



Okay, perhaps by using my ship as an example I was asking for this...

I was trying to make a general point, my point being that by downgrading your hull a tier and switching to fixer you can have a stronger ship and pocket more cash. This is not me asking for advice, or me needing help, it's me trying to give some advice out.



Another good point.



I have researched up to Tachycon sensors, but I don't have the space for sensors on my ship. A stryll sensor will be enough anyway.

ahh ok i though you were looking for advice - misread.

any rate if your looking to pocket a bit of cash look to the octofari mission chain, towards the end you get kalvium fortified plating, both of them on your ship gives you +10% hull in addition to whatever they provide. at rank 190 do the Lazuli mission chain and unlock the race.

Lazuli race gives +50% hull and they are a fixer race so thats another 30% plus Kalvium for 10% = +90% hull

even for me [ I am running no researchable hulls at the moment ] that puts my hull at 4.5k, so if your starting off with around 5k you could safley downgrade or just drop a plating or 2 all together pick up more space for a weapon or defense, and still be ahead on hull.

but thats looking ahead, need to be rank 190 for the lazuli mission chain

Wait, so your 190+ Lazuli and have less hull than me? :S

no no, im 149 vygoid, thats my plan though at 190 hit the lazuli mission and switch, by that time i should have most of the research in the game polished off, so there wont be much need for the 20% boost anymore, besides thats when the fun NPC's start to come out and play.

thats just me looking ahead

Most of the research done around 190? Sorry, but I find that incredibly difficult to believe... I'm over rank 600 and still have 94M research to do, which translates to roughly 8 months at my current production.

sorry researchable items ( ship mods ) not a grand total of all research, im obviously not going to be doing the legion base research that costs 30+M done at that level, that would be around rank 191