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Normal Defense vs Invasion Defense
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Author:  Kaos [ Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Normal Defense vs Invasion Defense
if I understand correctly normal defense is factored into the fight all the time where invasion defense is only factored during invasions.

So is there any advantage to invasion defense over normal defense?
Author:  Cothordin [ Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Normal Defense vs Invasion Defense
Kaos wrote:
if I understand correctly normal defense is factored into the fight all the time where invasion defense is only factored during invasions.

So is there any advantage to invasion defense over normal defense?

invasion defense is (atleast at lower research tiers) more space efficient then normal defense.
Author:  Kaos [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Normal Defense vs Invasion Defense
How so? I dont' ever remember seeing an invasion defense bonus in any of the planetary structures.
Author:  silentknight [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Normal Defense vs Invasion Defense
Cothordin wrote:
Kaos wrote:
if I understand correctly normal defense is factored into the fight all the time where invasion defense is only factored during invasions.

So is there any advantage to invasion defense over normal defense?

invasion defense is (atleast at lower research tiers) more space efficient then normal defense.


Yep. you'll notice the buildings take up less structure points and offer more defense against invasion than buildings that offer strictly defense.
Author:  Cothordin [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Normal Defense vs Invasion Defense
Kaos wrote:
How so? I dont' ever remember seeing an invasion defense bonus in any of the planetary structures.

i.e. City Shield=+40 defense for 4 space, AKA 10 defense per space, whereas Soldier Outpost=Invasion Defense +90 for 3 space AKA 30 Invasion Defense per space
Author:  Nocifer Deathblade [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Normal Defense vs Invasion Defense
Oh yes.. Invasion defense is so much space efficient for sure!

I love Lazuli Plyon ALOT!! It beats any kind of invasion structure I encountered and scrapped weak ones like soldier output etc to change to Plyon. It is 1 size: 175 invasion bonus: limit: 3!! Can have up to 3 structures for total of 525 defense for ONLY 3 size!! I have been building those plyons on many of my key planets to increase their resistance against invasions..
Author:  Zhorgul [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Normal Defense vs Invasion Defense
one question tho:

Do invasion defense benefit from legion bonus? Cause it's absolutely not obvious at all ;)
Author:  SpoonyJank [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Normal Defense vs Invasion Defense
Well ridiculous population seems to be the only thing that gives you any warning. Of the 10-20 people that can be warped away, one might be annoying/active. One can only live in hope in a 12 hour span. Then fluxes, whuch I hope carriers drop. Is it even possible to get more than 5 crimson cluster missiles? like 30? You seem the person to ask. I had DOO mass mails out for a planet of mine after some mass-hacking. I've had one person use probably 50 crimson cluster missiles on me and it would be nice to know if that is supposed to be possible.
Author:  Zhorgul [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Normal Defense vs Invasion Defense
SpoonyJank wrote:
Well ridiculous population seems to be the only thing that gives you any warning. Of the 10-20 people that can be warped away, one might be annoying/active. One can only live in hope in a 12 hour span. Then fluxes, whuch I hope carriers drop. Is it even possible to get more than 5 crimson cluster missiles? like 30? You seem the person to ask. I had DOO mass mails out for a planet of mine after some mass-hacking. I've had one person use probably 50 crimson cluster missiles on me and it would be nice to know if that is supposed to be possible.


The mission giving cluster missiles has 20 repetitions so I guess it's 20 per players. Now perhaps you can get them with APs, but never had any this way.
Author:  Kaos [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Normal Defense vs Invasion Defense
Nocifer Deathblade wrote:
Oh yes.. Invasion defense is so much space efficient for sure!

I love Lazuli Plyon ALOT!! It beats any kind of invasion structure I encountered and scrapped weak ones like soldier output etc to change to Plyon. It is 1 size: 175 invasion bonus: limit: 3!! Can have up to 3 structures for total of 525 defense for ONLY 3 size!! I have been building those plyons on many of my key planets to increase their resistance against invasions..


Yes but their is one building (don't remember which) that gives defense and cloak. I would rather increase the chances of it not being found than not being taken.
Author:  Cothordin [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Normal Defense vs Invasion Defense
Kaos wrote:
Nocifer Deathblade wrote:
Oh yes.. Invasion defense is so much space efficient for sure!

I love Lazuli Plyon ALOT!! It beats any kind of invasion structure I encountered and scrapped weak ones like soldier output etc to change to Plyon. It is 1 size: 175 invasion bonus: limit: 3!! Can have up to 3 structures for total of 525 defense for ONLY 3 size!! I have been building those plyons on many of my key planets to increase their resistance against invasions..


Yes but their is one building (don't remember which) that gives defense and cloak. I would rather increase the chances of it not being found than not being taken.

Anti-Resistance Base? Defense: 50, Cloak: 100 Space:5
Author:  Shadowdragon [ Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Normal Defense vs Invasion Defense
So, should a planet have both regular defence and invasion defence, or is it ok to just have invasion defence? I'm just wondering if I should swap out my bunkers for soldier outposts, or if I should have a mix of both.
Author:  Cothordin [ Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Normal Defense vs Invasion Defense
Shadowdragon wrote:
So, should a planet have both regular defence and invasion defence, or is it ok to just have invasion defence? I'm just wondering if I should swap out my bunkers for soldier outposts, or if I should have a mix of both.

eh it depends, id have to say that unless your going all out defense/offense on the planet, invasion defense is going to be more useful. But id really recommend cloaking before putting invasion defense. Though both cant hurt.
Author:  Nocifer Deathblade [ Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Normal Defense vs Invasion Defense
Shadowdragon wrote:
So, should a planet have both regular defence and invasion defence, or is it ok to just have invasion defence? I'm just wondering if I should swap out my bunkers for soldier outposts, or if I should have a mix of both.


I have invaded many planets.. I found defense and attack rather least important because of my near 4k attack and many player's planet defense usually are between 0 up to 500 and still NOTHING..

I found that invasion defense is more useful because it gives % chance.. But it would mean nothing if you got paradox generator that gives you another invasion chance if first one fails..

To me, most important defense is cloak (Chron shifter is very nice piece of artifact on key planets). Population comes in second simply because of max damage is 20.. Even with high defense, I still do 20 damage per hit to population. Planetary attack is a joke because you can always repair hull anytime you want and continue the attack.

You just have to re-apply your planetary traps every 1 week on important planets and be sure to flux-probe them every week just to make sure no ships have your planets on scan. Your planetary traps will help to buy you time if your planet got attacked while you are off-line then you can re-flux it if its not alerted.. You also can change its resource structures to full population/attack/defense structures to stall your invaders til its time to hide your planet away once again..

So far for my invasions on many rare planets, I would say 90% of time, those planets are rather defenseless with 100% resources. BIG mistake in their part.. I never once had my planet stolen before. I did had my few planets under attack when I was offline but all were failed attacks simply because I went on great length to make my planets hard to be stolen while I am offline..
Author:  Shadowdragon [ Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Normal Defense vs Invasion Defense
So, is it best to forget about attack and defense buildings and just go for invasion defense, population, and cloaking?
Author:  UltimateKane99 [ Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Normal Defense vs Invasion Defense
To a fair degree, yes. The higher level minefields and defenses, such as Quantum and Mass Shields and above, are fairly annoying because the space they take up is far more important than the defense they offer. I will never deploy a level 6 minefield and shield combo on a planet, because it literally is sucking up 12 space, when a 4 and 4 combo takes up 4 less space, which you can use for important artifacts, and wards off the weak ones.

Honestly, I agree that Invasion Defense and Cloak are the most important, with a smaller emphasis on population (That's only how long they can hold out, and most people take that into account).

Oh, and the actual resource production structures. :D
Author:  silentknight [ Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Normal Defense vs Invasion Defense
Which defensive structures you build on your planet are entirely up to the circumstances as to how many people have that planet in their data bases and wether or not they would want to take it. FIrst off don't bother building any defense on planets that arn't worth defending. I typically don't bother defending planets that arn't at least a Large/Rich unless they're a specific special kind of planet, and even then they'd better have good stats.

If it's a planet you scanned and it's not in anyone elses data base, then don't bother building defense/pop structures. Just build some of your best cloaking structures and fill the rest up with recource structures. The cloaking will help keep it off peoples scan lists.

If however someone finds your planet, either through scanning, but most importantly, they hack a planet location from you, THEN worry about defending it. Depending on how good the planet is dictates on how much you should spend guarding it. IF it's very good, tear down EVERTHING thing on that planet and replace with only 2 types of structures, defense and pop.

Population basically is the amount of "health" your planet has, much like your ships decks/sheilds. How much damage they do per hit is dependant on their attack vs your defense, just like in ship to ship battles. However, no matter how much damage they can do the max amount of damage that can be done in one hit will never exceed 20 damage. Once the planet pop is reduced to 10 or less, they can invade the planet. The only real bonus to planet pop is that it makes it cost more energy to try and capture a planet. Basically the only real defense this is giving you is your simply trying to run the person out of energy before they can get it low enough to invade the planet. IF they're big enough or they call in enough support from they're legion, not much is realy going to stop them from getting the planet pop down.

Defense is the other important defensive stat. Of the 2 defense is the MOST important. Much like ship attack vs defense, the higher defense your planet has the less damage they're attack will do. However, since the max damage you can do to a planet is only 20 anyways, odds are they're doing the 20 damage or close to it anyways. The reason why defense is the MOST important stat is because the higher your defense is to their ship's attack, the higher they're chances are of failing the invasion.

There's 2 types of defense on planets. Standard defense and Invasion defense. Standard defense is basic generic defense. It reduces the amount of damage they're ship will do and if they reduce the planet pop down enough to invade also increases they're chance of failing the invade roll. Invasion defense is exactly that. It's a defense modifier that ONLY comes into play when they click the invade button. The benefit is is that most structures that offer "invade" defense offer quite a bit more defense than just your standard generic defense structure for few structure points.

IMO, Once you know someone is gunning for your planet, I'd go for as many "invasion defense" structures as possible, as your best defense against loosing your planet, is for them to fail the invade roll. If they fail the roll this means they have to wait 24 hours before they can try invading a planet again. This allows you to be warned of the invasion (you'll see the notification on your news page) and allows you to respond by guarding the planet with your ship, if your not already, and most importantly by calling in reinforcements from your legion to also help guard your planet. This is actually probably the BEST defense for your planet since all guarding ships defense, and attack count towards the planets and once they reduce planet pop down to 10 they still have to remove all defending ships before they can invade. There's artifacts that can do this but if you have enough ships defending odds are they won't have enough artifacts, and trying to hammer down that many ships, especially if you have some very high ranking player's ships defending, can be extremely engergy inefficient and possibly impossible for lower levels. In the end though the best defense is just keeping your planets off other players radar and you do this with Flux probes and planet fluxes. I try to especially keep an extra planet flux laying around just in case someone does manage to hack the location of one of my good planets from me, I can easily take it back off their logs quickly.
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