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Uses for Omicron and Theta Mine Traps
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Hansolocal
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:52 am Posts: 704
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Hi all, have been thinking (was hard, and did hurt),
We all know that, as you level, Omicron and Thetacron mine traps lose their effectiveness in pvp. They go from being huge amounts of damage, to little more than flies on a windscreen. What I am offering is a chance to increase their usefulness, and to add another element to PvP.
First, is to change these so that they are no longer traps. Instead, there will be a separate area for mines. At first, you will only be able to have one mine online for defensive PvP. (Essentially, it will still work as a regular Omicron/Thetacron Mine Trap).
What will follow is a mission chain that will unlock more mine slots (to a maximum of between 5-10 mines).
What will intertwine are then also either missions or CTL blueprints that allow us to use Omicrons or Thetacrons to build customisable mines. Each customisable mine will have different effects (eg, some may be more effective against shield, doing increased damage, eithers might be good at negating shield charge. There might be others that are more effective against hull, or are anti-nanites which will slowly eat at the hull until it is repaired, etc, etc).
On top of that, once you have unlocked all the possible mine slots, there will be an added bonus for using all the same types of mines. For example, if you were to use mines that are effective against shields, the first one does regular damage, the second one does 10% more damage, second does 20% more damage, etc, etc until we get to the last one, which could potentially be an ion blast that knocks some of the attacking ship's modules offline.
On top of that also, there will then also be offensive mines. Mines that you can build which can then be used as the attacker during PvP. My idea is that, next to the attack button, there will be an 'Ambush' Button. The ambush button will open up a new screen that gives you options on how you wish to ambush your opponent (you can only use as many traps as you can set on your ship). What I am then thinking is that there is then also a fail chance on your ambush attempt, and that that chance is based upon your cloak.
As with the defensive mines, there will be different types of offensive mines (however, some may need to be different as the anti-nanite one may be OP in an offensive situation). And again, using the same type of mines once you have unlocked all the slots will give a bonus when the all the mines are successfully deployed. However, as the offensive mines require cloak, the special ability will be determined on whether or not the ambush was successful, and then on a second crit-hit roll.
On top of this, even if you have not unlocked any blue prints or all the slots, you will still get the stacking bonus, even if you just use Omicrons or Thetacrons (you just won't get the special ability based upon the final mine slot).
So, what do you think?
_________________ Lords of Infinity Recruiting Minions of level 700+ Owner of Zee Infinite Mug Zee Captein
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Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:01 am |
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RexMundiAbu
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:24 am Posts: 331
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Very nice idea , and well thought out + 1 from me !
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Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:01 pm |
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Feldshan
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 1:57 pm Posts: 172
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I like the idea, the mines right now down right suck, way to weak and trying to get thetas cost more energy then the damage they do to the enemy ship. Traps should be something to cause the attacker to second guess attacking you, not be a minor annoyance. I like the ambush idea, maybe have it offer the chance to not be alerted to the defending player's legion if you are successful, but cut success in half or by 66% each time you try to ambush the same player within a certain time period, since we don't want it being abused. Maybe up the rewards for the standard battle and give ambush the rewards for the current battle rewards.
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Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:31 pm |
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Chloron
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:47 pm Posts: 1513
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RexMundiAbu wrote: Very nice idea , and well thought out + 1 from me !
_________________XxDarthDexterxX wrote: You deserve a cookie, and earn yourself one cookie point. 
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Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:22 pm |
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SovietOfficer
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:08 pm Posts: 509 Location: Lavender Town
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Good idea, I like it, but to get rid of the existing mines as traps and then make a blue print that use's them seems useless since you'd need the blueprint in order to make them, and that could take very long time to aquire the blueprint. Now new mines that does some of these effects you said seems like a good idea, make them into a mission and unlockable at rank ether 450 or 500. Ambushing would work if you have more cloak then the players scan other wise I can see your attack coming, that and if you ether attacked or fired an artifact would still alert said player to an attack, could instead account for a critical hit if the ambush fails, but cloak would still need to be higher. +1 Feldshan wrote: I like the idea, the mines right now down right suck, way to weak and trying to get thetas cost more energy then the damage they do to the enemy ship. Traps should be something to cause the attacker to second guess attacking you, not be a minor annoyance. I like the ambush idea, maybe have it offer the chance to not be alerted to the defending player's legion if you are successful, but cut success in half or by 66% each time you try to ambush the same player within a certain time period, since we don't want it being abused. Maybe up the rewards for the standard battle and give ambush the rewards for the current battle rewards. Best way to not get alerted would be to not attack, horribly suggestion.
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Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:25 pm |
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Ruairi
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:37 am Posts: 614
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I don't say this often on the forums, but +1. Well thought out and and while the idea needs a little more fleshing out, I agree!
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Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:38 pm |
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mojo311
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:47 pm Posts: 2180
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This is a very well thought out idea. So nicely done on that. I do like that you added offensive mines in there as well. Defensive players all ready have it really easy because of the Gemini cannons. Just giving them more buffs would not be a good thing in my book. But if you gave them to offensive players as well that would be much better. I also think that if Dan does make this idea he should put in anti-mine mines. This could be used for both offensive and defensive players. There should be several missions set up for this idea that would allow you to unlock BP's that then add to a mine slot on your ship's tab (below allies) a new mine you can build. Can be set up just like all the other things in the ship tab. Like weapons and so forth. These new mines should cost arti's, creds, and minerals to build. There should be two parts of each BP mission. One in which uses the Omicrons to build the mine then a mark two version of the mine that needs Theta mines to build. Some of my ideas for the new mines are as follows:
anti mine's energy absorber's (takes a % of the damage done to your ship off for X amount of attacks) defensive jamming (takes a % of the enemy defense down for X amount of attacks) repair mine (repairs your ship for X amount of hull/shield) energy amp (buffs your attack for X amount of attacks) defensive amp (buffs your defense for X amount of attacks) Cloak field (deployed when trying to ambush that buffs your cloak for just the first attempt. Can choose how many to use if any on ambush try) Scan helper (Helps detect ambush's. When ambush is found and failed because of one of these mines it is used up.)
More can be added these are just some of the top ones that came to mind for me.
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Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:42 pm |
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Pikavader
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:49 pm Posts: 175
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RexMundiAbu wrote: Very nice idea , and well thought out + 1 from me !
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Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:30 pm |
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Hansolocal
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:52 am Posts: 704
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SovietOfficer wrote: Good idea, I like it, but to get rid of the existing mines as traps and then make a blue print that use's them seems useless since you'd need the blueprint in order to make them, and that could take very long time to aquire the blueprint. Now new mines that does some of these effects you said seems like a good idea, make them into a mission and unlockable at rank ether 450 or 500. Ambushing would work if you have more cloak then the players scan other wise I can see your attack coming, that and if you ether attacked or fired an artifact would still alert said player to an attack, could instead account for a critical hit if the ambush fails, but cloak would still need to be higher. Sorry, probably failed to point out, you won't need to find blue prints for the Omicrons or the Thetacron mine traps, as they will be produced the same way (the repeatable mission for Thetas and from artifact production for the Omicrons). However, the new mines are what will require you to find blue prints, as you will need the blue prints BEFORE you can create the new mines. However, Thetacron and Omicron mine traps will be a vital component to building these mine traps. On top of that, there will be two variants. An Omicron and a Thetacron variant of each mine, wherein the Thetacron version will do more damage than the Omicron version.
_________________ Lords of Infinity Recruiting Minions of level 700+ Owner of Zee Infinite Mug Zee Captein
And since that fateful day, I have been at war with all traffic lights.
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Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:54 am |
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Hansolocal
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:52 am Posts: 704
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mojo311 wrote: This is a very well thought out idea. So nicely done on that. I do like that you added offensive mines in there as well. Defensive players all ready have it really easy because of the Gemini cannons. Just giving them more buffs would not be a good thing in my book. But if you gave them to offensive players as well that would be much better. Well, when I first thought up this idea, I was only thinking that 'hey, shouldn't you (realistically) be able to load up more than one mine...' but then I realised that that is essentially just a variant of the gemini cannons, so to balance it out there would need to be offensive variants. mojo311 wrote: I also think that if Dan does make this idea he should put in anti-mine mines. This could be used for both offensive and defensive players. There should be several missions set up for this idea that would allow you to unlock BP's that then add to a mine slot on your ship's tab (below allies) a new mine you can build. Can be set up just like all the other things in the ship tab. Like weapons and so forth. These new mines should cost arti's, creds, and minerals to build. There should be two parts of each BP mission. One in which uses the Omicrons to build the mine then a mark two version of the mine that needs Theta mines to build. I definitely agree with this assessment: however, would like to add that built mines need to be one time use artifact (like traps now), not modules that never expend themselves. So, if someone sets off a mine, that mine is used and needs to be replaced (just like a trap). mojo311 wrote: Some of my ideas for the new mines are as follows:
anti mine's energy absorber's (takes a % of the damage done to your ship off for X amount of attacks) defensive jamming (takes a % of the enemy defense down for X amount of attacks) repair mine (repairs your ship for X amount of hull/shield) energy amp (buffs your attack for X amount of attacks) defensive amp (buffs your defense for X amount of attacks) Cloak field (deployed when trying to ambush that buffs your cloak for just the first attempt. Can choose how many to use if any on ambush try) Scan helper (Helps detect ambush's. When ambush is found and failed because of one of these mines it is used up.)
More can be added these are just some of the top ones that came to mind for me. Definitely love these ideas, and the idea of anti-mines. I was also thinking for offensive mines that they do not need to be purely damage based. For example, I was thinking of one offensive ambush mine that would be useful for players attacking a higher ranked opponent that there be an ambush option where the mines nullify all enemy attack (effectively making the enemy have 0 attack) for 5 attacks (with a critical chance upping that to 10 attacks), at that, in those turns (depending on the success of the ambush), might also nullify the Gemini cannons. But that is just an idea.
_________________ Lords of Infinity Recruiting Minions of level 700+ Owner of Zee Infinite Mug Zee Captein
And since that fateful day, I have been at war with all traffic lights.
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Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:03 am |
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Wolfy Minion
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:16 am Posts: 2737
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While this sounds interesting, I believe Dan's solution to these becoming outdated was the gemini cannons, a repeating-scaled blast. I just don't really see a need to update those specific arts or expand on them, they become useless rather quickly but geminis will never become useless.
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Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:04 am |
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Hansolocal
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:52 am Posts: 704
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Littlefluffy wrote: While this sounds interesting, I believe Dan's solution to these becoming outdated was the gemini cannons, a repeating-scaled blast. I just don't really see a need to update those specific arts or expand on them, they become useless rather quickly but geminis will never become useless. The idea behind this is that these still are useless, but also add in an offensive use for them in PvP. I've heard a lot of players complain that PvP has become too cumbersome. Adding in new elements (that somewhat reflect space dog fights), is something to reinvigorate PvP, but also add in something that makes it worthwhile to be an attacking ship. Also, eventually this will also help with legion wars, as teams will be able to coordinate attacks and ambushes together to help take down online ships.
_________________ Lords of Infinity Recruiting Minions of level 700+ Owner of Zee Infinite Mug Zee Captein
And since that fateful day, I have been at war with all traffic lights.
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Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:12 am |
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varunjitsingh146
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:11 am Posts: 5495 Location: Alpha Legion 100
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+1
_________________ Creator of Alpha Legion 100, The Robot Alliance, Galactic Historian Society, Galactic Entertainment Center, The Guidebook, and Fan-Forums. 2012 Player Of The Year. The Artists' Guild Member.
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Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:59 am |
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senatorhung
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:09 am Posts: 3473
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Hansolocal wrote: mojo311 wrote: This is a very well thought out idea. So nicely done on that. I do like that you added offensive mines in there as well. Defensive players all ready have it really easy because of the Gemini cannons. Just giving them more buffs would not be a good thing in my book. But if you gave them to offensive players as well that would be much better. Well, when I first thought up this idea, I was only thinking that 'hey, shouldn't you (realistically) be able to load up more than one mine...' but then I realised that that is essentially just a variant of the gemini cannons, so to balance it out there would need to be offensive variants. mojo311 wrote: I also think that if Dan does make this idea he should put in anti-mine mines. This could be used for both offensive and defensive players. There should be several missions set up for this idea that would allow you to unlock BP's that then add to a mine slot on your ship's tab (below allies) a new mine you can build. Can be set up just like all the other things in the ship tab. Like weapons and so forth. These new mines should cost arti's, creds, and minerals to build. There should be two parts of each BP mission. One in which uses the Omicrons to build the mine then a mark two version of the mine that needs Theta mines to build. I definitely agree with this assessment: however, would like to add that built mines need to be one time use artifact (like traps now), not modules that never expend themselves. So, if someone sets off a mine, that mine is used and needs to be replaced (just like a trap). mojo311 wrote: Some of my ideas for the new mines are as follows:
anti mine's energy absorber's (takes a % of the damage done to your ship off for X amount of attacks) defensive jamming (takes a % of the enemy defense down for X amount of attacks) repair mine (repairs your ship for X amount of hull/shield) energy amp (buffs your attack for X amount of attacks) defensive amp (buffs your defense for X amount of attacks) Cloak field (deployed when trying to ambush that buffs your cloak for just the first attempt. Can choose how many to use if any on ambush try) Scan helper (Helps detect ambush's. When ambush is found and failed because of one of these mines it is used up.)
More can be added these are just some of the top ones that came to mind for me. Definitely love these ideas, and the idea of anti-mines. I was also thinking for offensive mines that they do not need to be purely damage based. For example, I was thinking of one offensive ambush mine that would be useful for players attacking a higher ranked opponent that there be an ambush option where the mines nullify all enemy attack (effectively making the enemy have 0 attack) for 5 attacks (with a critical chance upping that to 10 attacks), at that, in those turns (depending on the success of the ambush), might also nullify the Gemini cannons. But that is just an idea. +1 nicely done !
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Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:11 am |
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DarthRavadge
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:26 pm Posts: 1621 Location: Orbiting the ruins of your base
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-1, Isn't an "offensive mine" a missile? A mine is and always will be a defensive weapon by definition. You don't charge into battle tossing mines at your enemy. You carefully place them in the hope that they will stumble into them...
Instead of mines what if we had Nukes or something? A high energy cost repeatable mission that drops a god awful offensive damage arti? Automatic damage cap x2 ?
Maybe another ship module like a "Point Defense System", designed to shoot down incoming projectiles which reduces the damage taken. Possibly upgradable to reduce the effectiveness of nukes down to say 50% of your damage cap.
_________________ "Honor is a fool's prize, glory is of no use to the dead"
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Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:44 pm |
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Hansolocal
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:52 am Posts: 704
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DarthRavadge wrote: -1, Isn't an "offensive mine" a missile? A mine is and always will be a defensive weapon by definition. You don't charge into battle tossing mines at your enemy. You carefully place them in the hope that they will stumble into them...
Instead of mines what if we had Nukes or something? A high energy cost repeatable mission that drops a god awful offensive damage arti? Automatic damage cap x2 ?
Maybe another ship module like a "Point Defense System", designed to shoot down incoming projectiles which reduces the damage taken. Possibly upgradable to reduce the effectiveness of nukes down to say 50% of your damage cap. If you read, the offensive mines in this idea are used in ambushes. Believe it or not, in offensive situations (even in the real world), mines can be used in offensive operations as well as defensive operations. Basically, it involves stealthily placing mines in a certain area and, on the offensive, forcing the enemies into that area. (However, these are less conventional mines and more remote detonated mines). In terms of this game, offensive uses of mines would either be to stealthy dropping of a mine in order to paralyse an opponent, or using offensive manouvres to push an enemy into a pre-made mine trap. And also, why would we need nukes when we have weapons capable of disrupting matter on a sub-atomic and quantum levels, weapons that can erase sub-atomic matter to weapons that actually rip the subspace. Nukes actually factor quite low on the technological advancement scale when you think about it.
_________________ Lords of Infinity Recruiting Minions of level 700+ Owner of Zee Infinite Mug Zee Captein
And since that fateful day, I have been at war with all traffic lights.
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Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:38 am |
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DarthRavadge
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:26 pm Posts: 1621 Location: Orbiting the ruins of your base
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Hansolocal wrote: DarthRavadge wrote: -1, Isn't an "offensive mine" a missile? A mine is and always will be a defensive weapon by definition. You don't charge into battle tossing mines at your enemy. You carefully place them in the hope that they will stumble into them...
Instead of mines what if we had Nukes or something? A high energy cost repeatable mission that drops a god awful offensive damage arti? Automatic damage cap x2 ?
Maybe another ship module like a "Point Defense System", designed to shoot down incoming projectiles which reduces the damage taken. Possibly upgradable to reduce the effectiveness of nukes down to say 50% of your damage cap. If you read, the offensive mines in this idea are used in ambushes. Believe it or not, in offensive situations (even in the real world), mines can be used in offensive operations as well as defensive operations. Basically, it involves stealthily placing mines in a certain area and, on the offensive, forcing the enemies into that area. (However, these are less conventional mines and more remote detonated mines). In terms of this game, offensive uses of mines would either be to stealthy dropping of a mine in order to paralyse an opponent, or using offensive manouvres to push an enemy into a pre-made mine trap. And also, why would we need nukes when we have weapons capable of disrupting matter on a sub-atomic and quantum levels, weapons that can erase sub-atomic matter to weapons that actually rip the subspace. Nukes actually factor quite low on the technological advancement scale when you think about it. Wasn't thinking in terms of technology, just a random name. Call it what you want. "Interdimensional Omnitargeting Alpha Omega Device of Doom". Or something...
_________________ "Honor is a fool's prize, glory is of no use to the dead"
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Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:35 am |
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Hansolocal
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:52 am Posts: 704
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DarthRavadge wrote: Hansolocal wrote: DarthRavadge wrote: -1, Isn't an "offensive mine" a missile? A mine is and always will be a defensive weapon by definition. You don't charge into battle tossing mines at your enemy. You carefully place them in the hope that they will stumble into them...
Instead of mines what if we had Nukes or something? A high energy cost repeatable mission that drops a god awful offensive damage arti? Automatic damage cap x2 ?
Maybe another ship module like a "Point Defense System", designed to shoot down incoming projectiles which reduces the damage taken. Possibly upgradable to reduce the effectiveness of nukes down to say 50% of your damage cap. If you read, the offensive mines in this idea are used in ambushes. Believe it or not, in offensive situations (even in the real world), mines can be used in offensive operations as well as defensive operations. Basically, it involves stealthily placing mines in a certain area and, on the offensive, forcing the enemies into that area. (However, these are less conventional mines and more remote detonated mines). In terms of this game, offensive uses of mines would either be to stealthy dropping of a mine in order to paralyse an opponent, or using offensive manouvres to push an enemy into a pre-made mine trap. And also, why would we need nukes when we have weapons capable of disrupting matter on a sub-atomic and quantum levels, weapons that can erase sub-atomic matter to weapons that actually rip the subspace. Nukes actually factor quite low on the technological advancement scale when you think about it. Wasn't thinking in terms of technology, just a random name. Call it what you want. "Interdimensional Omnitargeting Alpha Omega Device of Doom". Or something... Again, why would we need it when our weapons already do insane stuff? This is more as an added dimension to PvP.
_________________ Lords of Infinity Recruiting Minions of level 700+ Owner of Zee Infinite Mug Zee Captein
And since that fateful day, I have been at war with all traffic lights.
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Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:26 am |
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Feldshan
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 1:57 pm Posts: 172
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It would possibly help those people before we get the Gemini Cannons, and traps could use some updating.
Why not make a new research chain that is just for traps (offensive and defensive) using that have it so you can build the traps like in a CTL but just on your ship(The lab is on your ship not the Base). You take the Standard traps add minerals to them in varying amounts and get a new better trap.
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Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:43 am |
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senatorhung
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:09 am Posts: 3473
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Feldshan wrote: It would possibly help those people before we get the Gemini Cannons, and traps could use some updating.
Why not make a new research chain that is just for traps (offensive and defensive) using that have it so you can build the traps like in a CTL but just on your ship(The lab is on your ship not the Base). You take the Standard traps add BADGES to them in varying amounts and get a new better trap.
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Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:52 am |
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